Hard Wax Chain Greaser.

[Countrysailor]

Just noticed this debate going on. I still have the hard wax fitted. 7000+ miles on it. I put the bike on its centre stand, Using a cloth with engine oil, turn the back wheel lubing the side plates with the oily cloth. There is no schedule for this, every couple of weeks I might look to see if it needs it whilst checking the chain tension if it does it's a 5 minute job. Not a lot of trouble and not a lot of mess.A month or so ago I was given a can of chain wax spray and used that instead of the oily cloth. No cloth to get rid of and no oily hands to wash. Seems to be doing a grand job so when the can runs out, which at the rate I'm using it won't be this year, would seem to me to be me sorted.

[loggamatt]

OK... this thing is completely rubbish!

Between the last time I checked the chain and wiped it with ACF-50 and today (which admittedly has probably been a few hundred miles... I know there's a lot of salt about at the moment, but still...) the chain has got into a terrible state! Loads of rust all over it and some of the links barely move.

Have given up and booked in to get a Scottoiler fitted. I really really hope the chain can be salvaged with a proper clean as I definitely don't want the added expense of a new chain and sprockets  

[mr_diver]

Scotoiler V-system fitted when I bought her, 35k later and I've put on 2 new chain/sprocket sets, roughly 15k each. or a new set every summer.

First chain was still good, but oem front sprocket was toast.
Second chain was ruined by last summer. Ridding around 60 miles a day in winter with no attention paid and never cleaned and I kept forgetting to top up the Scottoiler. no not too bad really.

The Deauville and the CX-500 on the other hand gets looked at every 12k miles.      (so far 5k)

[loggamatt]

This is why my next bike will be shaft drive... I'm far too lazy for all this chain maintenance stuff!

The Scottoiler is an expense I don't want... but hopefully I'll get more peace of mind from a proven system. The hard wax thing was always going to be a bit of a punt! Possibly if I'd wiped the chain every week as well it might have been OK, but if I'm doing that I may as well just clean and lube the chain by hand instead.

[Tusker]

my other bike is shaft driven  

[mr_diver]

Shaft drive is great... but it weights a tone compared to chains.

And there's no new mid range bikes with shaft drive coming out, your looking at 1200cc bikes to get the benefit of shaft drive then you'll still be paying more than a chain set every 15k miles with the extra fuel.

The Deauville is about to be killed off by Mr Honda, and then there will likely be no mid range bikes with shaft on the New Market.

but I've got my little collection to keep me going for the next decade...  

[Tusker]

my shaft is 30 years old

[greywolf]

My shaft is 30 years old

Mine is 67. It tends to leak and sag but still works well enough for me to be grateful for it..

[Tusker]

ahh   my leaky saggy shaft id 57 in June  

my 30 year old shaft is on a Yamaha XS 1100 Sport        

[loggamatt]

Shaft drive is great... but it weights a tone compared to chains.

And there's no new mid range bikes with shaft drive coming out, your looking at 1200cc bikes to get the benefit of shaft drive then you'll still be paying more than a chain set every 15k miles with the extra fuel.

It's an interesting balancing act... I reckon the difference between running at 40mpg and 50mpg over 15k miles is about £500. But on the other hand, chain lube and chain cleaner isn't cheap... that all adds up over 15k miles.  Say you buy a new can of chain lube and chain cleaner every 2000 miles at £15 for both, that's over £100... then what's a new chain and sprocket set fitted? £200? More?

I'm sure running the shaft driven 1200cc bike does still work out as being a bit more expensive, but the convenience of never having to worry about chain maintenance would I'm sure soften the financial blow. As would the extra power from the 1200cc engine!

Of course, this argument falls apart completely when you consider purchase price... new Triumph Tiger Explorer is like £12,000, whereas the V-Strom 650 was somewhere between £6,000 and £7,000. Hence why I have one.

Also, I know that if something does go wrong with a bike's shaft drive, that's often not exactly a cheap repair job!

But if I could afford a 1200cc shaft driven bike, I'm pretty sure that weighing it all up, it would make sense for me to have one. All depends on your priorities though.

[Tusker]

my learned friends on the XS forum say they have never known a problem with the shaft drive on these 25 - 33 year old bikes ????


Don't know if younger bikes have a problem

[loggamatt]

Don't know if younger bikes have a problem

I'm sure a bitter ex-BMW R1200GS owner will be along any moment now........  

[mr_diver]

the deauvilles only develope problems if the factory didn't grease the splines well enough followed by lazy dealers npt greaseing when changing tyres.

[greywolf]

my 30 year old shaft is on a Yamaha XS 1100 Sport

I had an XS 1100E. The bloke I sold it to got T-boned exiting from a stop sign without looking both ways. I can't Imagine a chain lube that doesn't flow doing a proper job.

[Tusker]

nice looking bike ,, mines the 5K7




This is before the rebuild that is currently ongoing

[Jacko]

Scotoiler V-system fitted when I bought her, 35k later and I've put on 2 new chain/sprocket sets, roughly 15k each. or a new set every summer.

I wouldn't be happy with that.. My current chain and sprocket set on my zx6 is at 18k and still looks like new, no sprocket wear, no tight spots, no excessive stretch, I hardly have to adjust it, it doesn't have a Scottoiler, manual lube only and I don't clean it as often as I perhaps should.. But I'm fanatical about keeping it lubed..

I expect at least another 7k from it before it starts showing signs of wear..

[mr_diver]

wouldn't be happy with that.. My current chain and sprocket set on my zx6 is at 18k

ah yes but also remember that the strom is a v-twin and the power surges are likely to add more wear than a smooth inline 4.

[Keith Cross]

the deauvilles only develope problems if the factory didn't grease the splines well enough followed by lazy dealers npt greaseing when changing tyres.

Same with Goldwings.  We have 3 in my family, 1 1500 and 2 1100's.  The 1500 has 128,000 miles on it, one 1100 has 185,000 kms on it, not sure about the other one.
Currently my we has done 14500 on the original chain and has been adjusted once, but need another adjustment soon.
I used to run a MZ Baghira and a Aprillia Pegaso Strada.  Bit 660 cc singles.  520 rear chains used to last 5-7000 miles depending on make due to the way singles deliver power.

Keith C

[mr_diver]

I remember my 125cc ybr custom needed a new chain around 7k miles. major tight spot and on the last notch on the swing arm. it didn't stop mind, that bike took me everywhere and had 4 services in a year of ownership.
no one seems to want to buy the old man's deauville so I'll be seeing what sort of millage I can get out of that shafty. but my cx500 has just shy of 60k miles and by the look of it beaten every single one of them.

I'd willingly pay another grand for shaft drive on the wee. it'd be the only thing that'd make me sell my current wee.

[sharealike]

Could be all that carbon or graphite dust these things might cast off would not be good for your electrics over many years. Both conduct electricity very well if you let it build up. If its graphite we need to be careful. That will corrode aluminium with a little water. Perhaps tarnish the finish rather than rot through.

Most important place to have grease, chain lube or oil in your chain is inside the rollers. I don't see this dust getting in there too easily. O and X ring sealed chains holds grease inside the rivet to plate bearings so they don't get longer with use. They don't keep it in the sleeve to roller bearing. The bit that rubs inside the roller, rather than rolls on and off the teeth. Lubrication of any chain should pay attention to getting lube in that bearing. Only sure way is total immersion of the chain. The auto oilers look to come close with their pipes either side which are intended to pass oil down the inside of the side plates. Problem is that oil subject to centrifugal force as the chain runs round the rear sprocket needs to then turn 90 degrees to get into the bearings I mention. Not going to happen on any grand scale is it? Most lube is flung off never reaching the important part. Someone posted a good section picture of a chain here once. I will point out on that if they remember where it is.

All this talk of chains and their problems. What became of fully enclosed chains? Jawas, CZ's, MZ's and Honda CD's even some CB's come to mind. Some claim the advent of O and now X ring chains have made them redundant.

Legislation might bring them back sooner than we think on an environmental ticket. How long before the authorities realise just how much slippery, polluting oil we spray over the roads that runs off into the rivers and then to the seas? Remember the filthy brown stripe in the middle of the lanes on the American films? That was oil drip from the sumps or grease from the total loss chassis lube systems (heavier just after a bump in the road). All sorts of legislation about what your exhaust puts into the air. Nothing yet about your machines total hydrocarbon emissions which would include lost lube (and even the smell of the fuel in the tank). Can't be good breathing in that oil vapour too. Initiative in Europe would perhaps come from Germany. Seeing as they make many bikes with shafts and belts.

With a good chain case. No dirt. No water. Not much more weight. Clean wheel. Clean swing arm. Little environmental pollution. Greatly increased lube intervals. Fling all it liked creating a self lubricating mist. And a QD rear wheel so you could remove it without disturbing the chain.

Perhaps just cost cutting or styling not doing this today?? After all, the dealer will have nothing left for you to go back to him for without chain lube, fitting chains and the cleaning paraphanalia goes with them.

One of the aftermarket plastic moulders should surely come up with one for the Stroms? Might have to be £150 each or more to make it viable. Easy to design a mould and the flexible bits sealing the case to the frame and engine. We have O rings these days so sealing thething should be better than back in the old days. An end to "clean out front sprocket area" threads. No dirt or thick chain lube being thrown in there to build up it would wash it self out with the oil mist and drain backwards into the case. Could even have a little sump that splashed oil up from the bottom.