Author Topic: No Indicators or hazard warning lights  (Read 1180 times)

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Offline graingerblaze

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No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« on: March 27, 2023, 12:46:09 »
Typical, I spend all winter getting my bike ready for the new season and on my first day back commuting and all the indicators stop working! I checked the handlebar switch and it seems OK, full beam switch works so the switch unit is getting power. I need to put my volt meter on the actual contacts but knowing my luck the issue is deep under all the fairing.

Can anyone point me to any known issues? It may be the relay but without testing I can’t confirm. Talking of which, does anyone know where the relay for the indicators is on the first generation 650? I will search the website but a heads up is always welcome. Thank you.
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Online Rixington43

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2023, 13:05:28 »
I'm sure you mentioned having done the block connector behind the radiator since that is the classic fault for anything light related, the fact it is only the indicators though does point to something elsewhere.

I found this from a search, obviously I don't speak what they do but it looks as though the relay is in front of the battery.

Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2023, 13:12:41 »
Thank you Ricington43, just what I was thinking. My first thought was the connectors I cleaned and waterproofed under the air box, but then everything else works perfectly. So I’m thinking relay which as you say looks to be in front of the battery… hopefully. I really don’t want to be stripping the bike down again after one day riding  :dl_smiley_banghead:

I found a second hand Suzuki relay on eBay, so I have bought it as a backup (only £10). I will check the current relay tonight but I like to know a replacement is on its way. I looked at MSP and they want £88 for a new one, so hope the eBay one works if that is the fault. I may track down a new one at some point, as I’m not looking forward to my ride home waving my arms around like a knob  :whistle:
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Online Rixington43

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2023, 13:13:06 »
Just pulled that box on my Vee, definitely the indicator relay. Would assume then that first Gen 650 will be the same part in the same place.
Fingers crossed it's just clean the pins, grease and plug back in like every other connector on a Suzuki🤣

Online Rixington43

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2023, 13:26:47 »
Looks like there is a separate fuse for indicators as well in the small box next to that relay, ignore me if you've already checked the obvious though as I'm sure you have.

Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2023, 13:31:17 »
I hope so! I have ordered a new one anyway (£81) as it will be my luck it will be the cause and no cleaning will help. I know I should wait and check, but when something fails I always end up replacing it with new anyway as I loose trust that it will happen again. Never mind, will have a new bike at this rate  :roll:
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Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2023, 13:32:44 »
Yep I checked the fuses, all fine. Plus I keep a pack of new ones on the bike so I swapped them to be sure. Thank you though, all very good points. I will update when fixed  :thumb:
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Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2023, 14:16:52 »
Well, the relay isn’t the problem. The very expensive relay (£81) arrived from Fowlers of Bristol this morning, tested it and no joy. It was also the exact same one as fitted to my bike which I thought wasn’t original, turns out it is. So for anyone searching 3861003F01, then please just google FE249JR (made by Denso) as it’s the same part.

I had a quick google and it’s £14.99 on eBay… serves me right for not checking before I bought from Fowlers. Anyway lesson learned, time to strip the bike down and test all the wiring.
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Online Rixington43

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2023, 16:59:25 »
Bought remotely you should have a 14 day zero quibble right to return for refund so you only lose the cost of postage.
Very odd how you've lost everything all at once, it does point towards something indicator specific since presumably your other lights are still all working fine. The block connector behind the radiator would tend to lose all your lights at once but might be worth a double check since it's not too terrible to access.
I do faintly remember having a strange issue where I sprayed some GT85 into the indicator switch as it was feeling a bit gritchy (technical term) and I temporarily lost all my signal/hazard lamps. I gave it a damned good blast out with disc brake cleaner and they all came back.
Hopefully it's something simple.

Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2023, 17:04:37 »
I hope so to. I'm going to strip and clean the switch first, just to rule that out... then if that fails it will be a fairing off job and tracing wires to see where the fault lays.

Fowlers have offered a full refund upon return, so I'm off to the post office in the morning. Next time I buy stuff, I will remember to actually look at the bike first rather than jump on the internet and buy blindly. To be fair to Fowlers, they are very good but to charge £66 more for the same part is a tad cheeky. Lesson learned  :roll:
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Offline kwackboy

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2023, 17:49:29 »
The extra £66 is for the Suzuki sticker on the box it came in ..  :icon_wink:

Sounds like you'll be all over this problem with the good advice you're getting  :thumb:

My few pennies worth would be to go for the block connector..

Hope you manage to fix it..   :)
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Offline purplebikeunicorn

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2023, 23:02:33 »
From what I can make out on the wiring diagram, +ve goes into the indicator relay, and out comes on a light blue wire. This goes all the way to both handlebar switches (hazards and indicator switch). The switches then switch this to the appropriate indicator bulbs, which then goes to ground through the bulbs (and telltales).

So, if this light blue wire is broken somewhere (I.e. in a corroded connector), it would kill both indicators and hazards. Colours are from the Haynes wiring diagram so hopefully are correct, but might not be!

I believe you should be able to measure 12V at the light blue wire at the indicator switch, and this should easily light a test bulb (say, a 55W H7 if you have one lying around). A smaller bulb should also work, but it might not get the relay to flash). If you don't have 12V, or have something silly like <8V when your battery is good, then suspect the wiring (you can also test on the output of the relay too).

Having googled that box, it looks like it's an integrated package, not just the indicator relay! (Contains diodes + sidestand relay + indicator relay) - explains why it has 7 pins. I wouldn't try to bench test it unless you know exactly what pins do what :P

Offline Mojo-Jojo

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2023, 00:03:13 »
I would still go back to the connector blocks behind the radiator, I've had my low beam fail just because the wiring loom was a little tight and not making a clean contact.

Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2023, 01:23:44 »
Thank you purplebikeunicorn for this information, that's brilliant. I have a volt meter, bulbs, all sorts so I will give the blue wire a check. Failing that, tank off and check all the connectors... again. As mentioned by Mojo-Jojo, the connectors under the airbox are always likely culprits but these I cleaned and tested weeks ago. I did the wire fix in the front cowling years ago, and I still have headlights so I doubt its that but again I will double check since I will have the fairing and tank off so easy to access. Thank you for the help  :thumb:
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Offline purplebikeunicorn

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2023, 01:52:21 »
Is it possible that you have disturbed a pin, or perhaps had a problem wire near that connector? I bet it is in that connector, as Mojo-Jojo and others say... sorry!  :dl_hyperhysteria:

Offline kwackboy

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2023, 07:58:00 »
Thr pins in the block connector are useless,  I always give them a little twist to make sure they connect ..
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Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2023, 23:54:03 »
No luck yet… took the fairing, tank and air box off and so far the connectors seem OK. I need to unplug and check with a voltmeter but I hate chasing wires. The block connector on the fairing will be fine as I bypassed the block and soldered the light wires a few years back, but I will check again to rule it out  :roll:
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Offline Pete O Tube

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2023, 08:57:39 »
My money would be on the 10 way connector (yellow in your photo) it carries the headlights circuits and indicators and is commonly corroded beyond repair.
Never had a problem myself but I have repaired someone else's 650 by cutting out the connector completely and replacing with......Wago connectors.
Had to cut back the individual wires to get back to clean copper as there was significant verdigris on all of the conductors.
Solder joints in this type of application are prone to failure due to vibration.

Offline graingerblaze

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2023, 09:53:47 »
Thank you Pete O Tube, I will make that my focus of attention. I need to get a Haynes manual, or at least a wiring diagram as I couldn't say what each connector was for so I'm a little in the dark (no pun meant).  :dl_hyperhysteria:
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Offline Pete O Tube

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Re: No Indicators or hazard warning lights
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2023, 09:58:18 »
Just to add (going back to my telecoms engineering days) - soldering leads to embrittlement of copper conductors and hence leads to fracturing due to vibration.
I crimped a section of (appropriately rated) cable one end and used the inline Wago 221's at the other, these are rated 32A and so are fine for the headlamp cables, they allow easy tool less connection/disconnection, should this be needed.
All protected with a little ACF50 and bundled in to heatshrink sleeving and old push bike inner tube.