Spongy Lever after Pad Change - help!

[FragglePete]

Wonder if any can shed any light here....

2014 DL1000A4 - Veek. 

Just changed the pads front and back.  A job I've done on motorcycles numerous times.  Cleaned it all up during the process, checked everything was in place, all tighten up to spec and pleased with myself at how straight forward it was overall. 

However, went to pump the lever to get the callipers in place and it just stays really spongy, lever pulls back as far as it can go but no amount of pumping is getting any sort of pressure back into the lever.   I tried bleeding it all through with fresh fluid, and still nothing.  Pulled the callipers off again and checked if it's anything obvious and callipers are definitely moving with slight pressure on the lever, both sides of the pads are pushed out.  Refitted, re-bled (just to be sure) and nothing.   Back brake pedal firmed up straight away, but just nothing from the fronts.   

What am I missing?  Pads were low before, but still had a bit of life in them but just my peace of mind getting these things done as it's a new bike to me and the history shows the pads haven't been done as of yet. 

Is there something with the ABS I missing here?  No errors showing, and light goes out after the wheels do the first rotation with engine running.

  

Pete

[kwackboy]

Couple of things to look at ...

Is there a lip on the brake discs ? If so, the brake will feel spongy until the pads settle in.

Try to see if the spongy brake gets better with the calipers off thier mounts with caliper bolts out.

Check to see if pads move freely in the caliper , they maybe getting caught somewhere.

[FragglePete]

No lips on the discs

Pads seem quite firmly seated in caliper.

So, callipers off the mounts completely and something wedge between the pads you mean?  Otherwise they'll just push together to far surely?

Appreciate the response.

Pete

[clutchspring]

I had a similar thing some while back but it was on a car !.
Me & my brother had changed the brake master cylinder & when we came to bleed the brakes we couldn't get a firm pedal.
My brother was a experience machanic but he couldn't figure out why the pedal was still soft.
Any way we had to come back to it the next day & found out one of the brake pads was sitting at a angle to the piston, as soon as we had leveled the pad up we wear able to get a firm brake pedal.
Ian.

[FragglePete]

The only thing introduced here is the pads.

Going to refit old pads and see if I get pressure back.

Pete

[TLPower]

Excuse my ignorance on the caliper set-up, are they radially mounted?

If they are similar to the KTM set-up (with bolts at 90 degrees to the fork). The correct procedure is to loosen the bolts to allow the calipers to move on the bolts, pump the lever until it "firms up", hold the pressure with a tie wrap or similar and only then tighten the bolts to the correct torque.

I didn't  follow this once and had exactly the symptoms you describe, I read the KTM manual and all was sorted.

[Rusty Nuts]

Timely insight, TL. I may be getting a new front tyre, if the pads get pushed back prior to wheel removal will I have to do that trick?

[kwackboy]

Shouldn't need to such a process on the DL as they have bushes in a recess to locate the caliper.

[FragglePete]

No to the radial mount as you describe.  I've followed the procedure in the workshop manual to the letter.  Nothing special, loosen pad pins, remove caliper mounting bolts, remove caliper, clean caliper especially around pistons, install pads, install pins, remount calipers, tighten up to spec, pump lever.

Old pads give same problem.

Time to put new ones back in again.  Maybe a phone call of shame to the motorcycle repair place on Monday morning.

 

Pete

[FragglePete]

Being ABS for bleeding.  Anything special I need to do this?  Old pads, no difference, new pads back in but still same issue.  Going to bleed loads of fluid through, now as a last ditch attempt.

Pete

[TLPower]

@Rusty, the easiest way to do it is to remove the front mudguard and one-bolt the calipers. Slacken off the lower pinch bolts and the 36mm axle bolt.

5 minutes tops, it's all in your KTM bible with all the torque settings and the caliper re-location procedure.

[Gert]

Check on the actual caliper piston movement when you operate the brake lever. If there is zero piston movement, then there is either air in the brake system, bad brake fluid or the piston is jammed. How did you push the piston back into the caliper, to allow for the new / thicker pads?  For anyone who may require a refresher on front brake bleeding, see the video in #3 of https://www.v-strom.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=39270.0

[FragglePete]

After cleaning around the pistons I manage to just push each piston back by hand before inserting the new pads. 

I did confirm that each pad was being pushed by ever so slightly pulling the brake lever with the caliper in my hand and could see the pads move easily on both sides.

No visible evidence of leaks I can see.

Going to try the reverse bleed method today.  Found a syringe and tubing so hoping this might get rid of any air trapped in there.

Damn brain kept me awake last night thinking about this.  Just hope I can get it sorted today.

Pete

[Ratcatcher]

I replaced the front pad on my Veek recently, no problems, worked perfectly afterwards.
But my KTM occasionally when I get it out the front brake comes back to the bar, after Googling it , found they all do that apparently, the  solution is to strap the lever to the bar overnight, next morning it’s fine. It’s now one of my regular checks the day before I go out on a run.

[Mr Nick]

Never had to do that to my KTM, but a solution advised often around here. I think the SV I had was the last that needed the lever strapped to the bar overnight after I'd rebuilt it.

[p47]

+1 with ratcatcher this does work 

[FragglePete]

I appreciate everyone's input on here.   I'm at the end of my ability here.  I even spoke to a good friend of mine based in America who has run a motorcycle service/shop, and currently runs a the service department for a large chain of motorsport vehicles and gave me a few pointers to try.  But, still no joy.

I've tied the brake lever up for now and tapped gently away at things to see if it's any better tomorrow.  But, for now, I'll have to arrange for a repair workshop to come get it and try to fix. 

Pete
 

[UK_Vstrom650]

Fingers crossed. Mine always feels useless when I change pads/fluid etc & everytime a cable tie over night solves the issue.
The first time I did the brake fluid on the Glee I put a litre bottle through thinking there was air in the system but in the end the above fixed it. I do it automatically now.

[FragglePete]

OK - interesting phone call with the workshop this morning.

First thing he asked, "is it an ABS model?"  "Yes", I replied.  And straight away he told me, "Yup, seen this before, by pushing back the pads you've created an air bubble in the ABS module.  The only way to fix is to bleed, bleed, bleed and bleed some more"   Goes to tell me that they've dealt with this on numerous V-Stroms, and by raising the front wheel in the air, moving the pipes around and knocking the ABS module about a bit and bleeding nearly 2 litres of brake fluid through it will eventually resolve it.

So, as they know about this and have dealt with it, I've got it booked in with them next week to sort.  So, I won't get it back until after the Easter Weekend, but it's still early in the year, we're still technically locked down so just a little upsetting.

Frustrating that no mentioned of this in the workshop manual.

Pete

[Mr Nick]

I'm curious where would this air bubble would have come from in a sealed system devoid of air?