The Long Way Up .

[kwackboy]

My boredom over the holidays has led me to start watching "The Long Way Up" with the two usual suspects, Ewan McGregor and Charlie boorman riding electric Harleys from Patagonia to Los Angeles. 

Only seen 3 episodes and so far it's showing how much is needed for us all to be converted to electric.

So, for them to be riding two electric Harleys all that way they have a camera man on a petrol driven Harley, two one off electric support vehicles, a third diesel van with solar power to charge all vehicles and finally as backup they can call in an emergency diesel generator on a lorry .... 

Oh , they've also had specially fitted charging points along the route... 

Now don't get me wrong , I'm all for progress and reducing our carbon footprint but the resources they have used to get there along with all the vehicles they are using just to show two electric bikes can ride 16000 miles somehow defeats the objective. 

If you fancy a laugh , it's on Apple TV 

[Barbel Mick]

I don't intend to watch it even if it gets on to 'free' TV!!
Diesel van, towing a Diesel generator to charge an Electric car?

[StromGeeza]

You do realise, of course, the evil hand of the fossil fuel lobby in this oddness?  I do feel sorry they have to ride Harleys.
The daft thing is that even in pretty remote areas they have electricity, so do-able without the daftness. But going the 'Long Really Slow Way Up' wouldn't be that far off the never ending journey... 

[SimStrom]

Electric Harley's will be out selling Cornflake bikes this year   

[2112]

As someone who has gone 'all electric' I can say it is far from easy. The infrastructure is not there yet (and that's in the UK) and it can be both frustrating and tedious. We have 2 x electric cars, solar panels, air source heat pump & 2 x Tesla Powerwalls. I even have a beast of a battery lawn mower too. But, we can't just go on churning out noxious gasses every day, something has to give. Bikes are a long way off being of any practical use as an EV unless you are commuting on it. However, the 'next generation' battery technologies promise greater density of stored energy (more range), less weight (more range, more speed) and faster charging (less time waiting). Tesla's new Silicon anode based Lithium battery (4680 cell) allows more density, reduced charging times, less thermal instability and zero Cobalt meaning costs are lower. Easy to mass produce it will drive costs down and make two wheeled EV's viable in the next few years. 200 mile range, 20 mins charge time and about the same weight AND price as a current big trail bike ? Where do I sign...

[kwackboy]

After watching the whole series, it's very apparent that their range is affected by temperature.
Their max range in Patagonia, with no hills was 80miles but, further north above the equator the range increased to around 120miles.
The charge times varied massively from 2 hours -10 hours. 

The last two episodes getting through Mexico was laughable, it reminded me of watching the A-Team .. 

[Brockett]

2112 you are star. No seriously. Your considerable investment in solar energy is much appreciated by me as my bungalow is about two and a half meters above sea level. I hear that huge Antarctic glacier that is melting quicker than a politician promise will raise sea level by three meters and is likely to make my carpets a bit damp.

[tallpaul]

The price needs to improve considerably, along with practicality. I would only trust an EV for my commute but the idea of buying a thirty grand car just to drive to work and back? It's not happening!

[2112]

2112 you are star.

Cheers Brockett, sadly my house alone will not make that much difference but change is coming. The forthcoming banning of gas heating for all new build houses will be a start as will the proposed banning of replacement gas heating systems a few years down the line. This will help but the biggest driver of greenhouse gas reduction will be the smart grids & time of use tariffs to the electricity network. As more renewables come online the network will have times of surplus and times of deficit. You will be able to buy electricity very cheap at peak output/low demand times (charge your batteries/EV or heat your hot water tank) and at times of high demand/low output electricity prices will rocket 'encouraging' customers to stop charging or using and to turn things off. This happens in big industry and makes a huge difference to the grid demand. Those smart meters are not being installed just so you can see how much money you are spending...

[2112]

The price needs to improve considerably, along with practicality. I would only trust an EV for my commute but the idea of buying a thirty grand car just to drive to work and back? It's not happening!

Agreed about the cost however, I paid £8,500 for a 3 year old Renault Zoe (battery owned, no lease) with 8,900 miles on the clock and 1 owner. It's approaching 5 years old with just over 15,000 miles on the clock but it is worth slightly more than I paid for it due to the increase in demand. Zero road tax, only £18 in fuel so far (free charging in Northumberland and at home in the summer off the PV) and £100 per year for an MOT & service makes this very cheap motoring. EV's are very reliable as they have very few moving parts, the downside is they do go wrong you generally need to go back to the main dealer. The Mrs has a Kia E Niro which has a near 300 mile range and can recharge very quickly. We've been all over the UK in it for holidays & work and it's been fairly drama free. Only dead charging points have caused an issue but the big range normally wins out. Yes, it was a few quid but a LOT less than her previous Mercedes Benz GLC...

[Tusker]

hmm, 45% of all UK electricity is fossil fuel produced. would like to see the numbers relating to comparative efficiencies. I'm not against electric vehicles but lets see proper analysis..   

This is worth a read, even though the source is pro electric..  inevitably we will need more electric if electric vehicles are the future..   https://www.electrifying.com/news/article/electric-cars-are-they-really-green-?gclid=Cj0KCQiA88X_BRDUARIsACVMYD_gVDcecZgSE3PAhw0nsQaXpqxZOK5TzNVIldEGqBJqbo4HwTP3IXIaAgW8EALw_wcB

[Tusker]

here is a balanced view  https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/are-electric-cars-actually-worse-for-the-environment/

[doboy]

This time of year the power stations can just about keep us going so with all the cars we run in this country how would they manage if they all went electric ???

[falkland bomber]

One thing don't forget going green will cost tens of thousands of jobs , I lost my job I had for 18 years and have struggled ever since to land a job as good as the one I lost.

I will never ever have anything electric driven be warned!!

[2112]

This time of year the power stations can just about keep us going so with all the cars we run in this country how would they manage if they all went electric ???

As a renewable power engineer I am well aware that the UK has a massive amount of private investment lining up to provide huge quantities of offshore wind power. The aim is to overproduce this power and store it in the increasingly large number of battery storage facilities around the UK. What cannot be stored can be distributed around Europe via 400,000v DC interconnectors.
This energy is (relatively) very cheap to produce due to the sheer scale of the new turbines (15MW and getting bigger !). My company alone has been heavily involved in the establishment of 187MW / 374MWh of battery storage in the North East & Scotland. While this is a drop in the ocean more & bigger batteries are on their way. Solar is officially the cheapest way to produce electricity but has it's obvious limitations, next cheapest in onshore wind followed by offshore wind and the working it's way up to Nuclear. Gas & coal are no longer cheaper.
Lots of job opportunities will come from this as manufacturing, maintainance and installation companies begin to grow with demand. Out with the old & in with the new.

[2112]

I'm not against electric vehicles but lets see proper analysis.

There are a lot of these reports out there for people to view and comment on. One of the problems is these are often 'carved' from very lengthy scientific studies and don't show the whole picture. I have seen scientific papers (which are not publicly available, scientists only - my boss is one) that shows EV's over a 15 year lifespan produce 50% less C02 than a good ICE car and those savings get bigger if the car lasts longer. The 'other' emissions are equally massively reduced. Battery production is getting cleaner & more cost effective almost by the day. They make sense.

[Dark-Strom]

kind of watching this area with interest.
Battery life and replacement costs  in particular (as well more co2 to make the replacement).
My Dad runs a Lexus rx, the battery has lasted 5 years so far, but from other sources this is not always the case...
I have also heard reported the high unreliability of wind farms and resulting  high costs etc.?

[Rookie]

Just a thought, look how good and clean nuclear power was meant to be. Just saying.

[Mr Nick]

My issue with renewable generation is that Salmond promoted onshore turbines around here as the new way for the rich to make easy money whilst soaking up tax breaks and subsidies, just like the mass pine tree planting of the late 20th century. Now we have acres of alien trees as cash crops for the suits alongside the forests of windmills on about any high piece of ground they could buy.
Planners were about as effective as Don Quixote when they tried to stop them being built; Holyrood's appointed Reporter just overruled the locals for the benefit of the SE elite.
There is a clear need to use renewable energy, but we've been blighted by the most intrusive low budget version going. And least reliable to boot: the tide always turns, there's always light, but often either too much or too little wind.

It's good that affluent households will be able to invest in free power going forward, but there are more than I'd care to estimate that are barely able afford to replace their gas boilers when they pack in, and a whole new heating system is way beyond their means. Having replaced my old boiler last year with little change from £3.5k, I shudder to think what ripping the lot out & retrofitting would have come to. I know there are schemes to help fund PV panels for them, but the contracts are very likely to be more beneficial to the provider rather than the home owner. The closer we get to losing gas altogether, the more the demand will rise for alternatives, and that always takes the price up with it.

[2112]

the tide always turns, there's always light, but often either too much or too little wind.

Tidal power is plagued with issues, mostly due to the fact the sea can move 300 tonne boulders in a storm and break anything we build. One of the reasons that tidal generation test equipment is usually painted fluro pink or yellow is to give you a chance to spot the battered parts strewn around...

Solar is very seasonal, my 14.9kW system only produced 122kWh in December last year but my house used 2,349kWh (2,242kWh came from the grid) over the same period. However, in May last year I produced 1,888kWh and used only 916kWh, none of which came from the grid and I exported over 850kW back to the grid. This is why we need a mixture of wind, solar and most importantly storage (battery or 'other' - too many to list !). Hydro plays a part too but tidal is not really the way forward.

From a geographic point of view the British isles (and Ireland) have some of the most reliable winds in the world due to the Gulf Stream effect. This is why there are so many offshore projects in the offing with several planned off the South coast of Wales, Devon & Cornwall and the South Coast in general. The other advantage of this offshore wind is that it creates no-go areas for shipping, meaning we develop marine reserves to help bolster fish and other aquatic life.