Really need help with these valves. Now I sure this just ain't right

[Ian T]

Me again with me valves. If you have seen on other threads on recall they were measured at bottom of range on exhausts, I won't go into that again but I have just measured them and what a job to get everything out of the way.

Here are the values of what they found only 7500 miles ago and what I have just measured:

Rear Cylinder-
Them.    Inlet           0.12 and 0.12.      Me 0.15 and 0.13
             Exhaust.     0.20 and 0.20.      Me 0.18 and 0.18

Front Cylinder-
Them.    Inlet.          0.12 and 0.14.      Me 0.12 and 0.13
             Exhaust.     0.20 and 0.20.      Me 0.15 and 0.15

Funny thing is when I took off the valve covers the front bolts were furred up on the thread. So I think they not done it at all as other rear cyclinder valve cover bolts all clean and oiled.

So two questions please can valves close up that much in 7500 miles most on steady motorways. If so was this anything to do with the recall.

Secondly what is my best way forward with the dealer do you think given then will just say sod off we done it

Any help would be very really wonderful.

Cheers

Ian

[Rich:-)]

How good are your feeler gauges?

I ask as I was once tripped up by a cheapy market set I had. These has slight burs on some of the ends (leading edges) and because of this it made the gap appear to be tighter than it was. I even re shimmed because of this but when I rechecked after shimming the gap was huge... not what I was expecting... anyway once the measured values stopped making sense I did what any quality DIY mechanic does, and blamed my tools.
So I bought some better quality feelers gauges after that.

[Rich:-)]

Normal I'd say, the front cam cover gets exposed to weather and road spray whereas the rear is hidden and more protected.

[Ian T]

Agree front gets more exposed but I am talking about the valve cover bolts on the threads. That is where it was furred up, typical ali furring.

Just been out and bought another set of feeler gauges, mind you others were quite new but noticed they were branded from China. Halfords, not the best I know but should be accurate, all values as I have written them. Thanks for the idea to check though

Dealership shut today open tomorrow but I can just hear them now

Also for the valves to close up that much I would have been caning it to death and I have not that is just another weird variable

Cheers

Ian

[greywolf]

There's no way the clearance would move that much in the total life of the bike. Somebody measured wrong or had bad tools. The first thing I would suspect is the job was not done with the marks lined up and the cam lobes in the correct position as detailed in the manual. I've known people who just turn the crankshaft until the cam lobes point up and that does not work.

[Valves]

It was well known with the SV/TL that shops used to check the front cylinder BUT NOT the rear as it was such a 'pig' to get at BUT the rear gets hotter. Dealers used to argue that they were the same but that was/and is a load of Bol*locks. I got my nickname doing valves for friends who got fed-up with dealer stealing...

[Ian T]

Cheers everyone

I really appreciate your replies. I have put it all in an email and going to see the service manager tomorrow. God knows if they will admit anything but it worth a try.

Cheers

Ian

[Ian T]

Well off to see the service manager now. I wonder if there is a god of Suzuki

Cheers

Ian

[Hugh Mungus]

I don't think you'll get anywhere with the mileage covered since the service.
Best of luck though.

[Ian T]

Ha ha you guessed it. Dealer fucked me off saying job card checked OK, mechanic said he did it.  Funny thing that, think I must be psychic.

When I questioned how could they have moved so far 0.05 in the front exhaust valves he said he checked with Suzuki and they said that is acceptable and could happen, nothing of concern.

Well I just don't buy it but what the hell can you do if they put the wall up. I just hate fecking dealers. They want £275 ish to fix, he not cutting me any slack and a couple of local independents want about the same.

Even I had it all stripped down for access about an hour and they supposed to be specialists. I just ain't got the confidence to attempt a cam out job, push rods and shim on top like me K75s yes but too modern and too much of a chance I could get it wrong.

To top it all me Jacket started leaking and out of warranty by a week

Ian

[Rich:-)]

No push rods or followers and the like. The cam is straight on the the bucket with the shim underneath. It really isn't much more work to change them once you've checked then. Just don't let the chain drop!

[Angustoyou]

Agreed. Getting down to check the fekkers is a bigger job than changing them. Research the method, be methodical, take your time and triple check everything. 

But do any need changing?  Until you get measurements that match, you don't know which are right.  Double check your methods, try different gauges, and get a mate to check them to see what they measure them at.

 You're taking on a hell of a job for no benefit whatsoever if they are in, or on spec. 

[Captain]

Where abouts are you ian?

[Ian T]

Hi

I am under the Humber Bridge, it I said about 150 from you it's really kind of you to ask but I am now doubting my own ability and sanity. Dealer jogged me on, Suzuki jogged me on, but I can't get them to admit that that amount of valve closure over just 7000 miles is not the norm as the dealer said.

I have contacted another authorised Suzuki dealer who said it all sounds like bolliks so I have just booked it in with him. I have to wait until the 22nd next month but he said he will sort it out and  put em right. Don't think he will support me against Suzuki though. So I just Got to bite it and get it sorted. Really angers me.

I have had so much crap told me I just don't want to risk it with the bike. Mind you no guarantee this chap will do it properly I suppose.

Like is said really kind of you to ask and really appreciated

Cheers

Ian

[Mr Nick]

The cynic in me says this is a garage owner who sees an easy mark for a pile of work that doesn't need done to keep a mechanic busy for a day at someone else's expense, so why not agree with what you've already decided - we haven't convinced you otherwise & we're not in it for profit.

But, it's your money at the end of the day.

[Angustoyou]

Totally agree with mr nick.

How are you planning on checking this latest dealers work?  Just giving you the answer you want to hear is no guarantee.

The only way to be sure is to do it yourself, or take it to someone you trust 100%. 

It really isn't rocket science.  Follow the instructions reference cams in the right position etc, and have an engineer that knows how clearances feel double check your measurements, then ONLY adjust them if they are OUT of spec.  Preferably find an engineer/trusted mechanic that does not stand to gain anything regardless of the result - that is, pay him for measuring only.  As it stands you have no idea what the clearances are, and different results whoever you ask.

I had a manager check my machining work years ago that told me I was producing out of spec.  He measured the same piece 3 times and got 3 different results.  I asked him why he believed the one out of spec reading he got was the correct measurement, and why with 3 different results he could trust any of them.  He couldn't tell me, so I demanded an engineer should measure it.  His results were the same as mine.  The part when measured properly was in tolerance.   You do need to know how clearance feels, it's not just the biggest gauge you can squeeze in, experienced mechanics or engineers should agree on the results.

[Ian T]

You know I have to agree with you both, but I am just so fed up with all of this, the bike is running like a dream, just done about 2500 on it going to that BMW rally, perhaps it is paying me back for parking it amoungst 40000 GS's.

It just that I am properly fucker over this one, I stripped it down as I was doing the big service and fluid changes, simples enough, so took the covers off and checked. I have been playing with bikes for years but even now I doubt my ability over this one, I have checked valves in the past, OK I admit mostly tappitts and the BMW K75 so not like these on the DL.

I thought I knew what I was doing, evidently I can't because how could they close up so much even GW himself says they can't close up that much.  The recall if it was done properly set em at the lowest tolerance so as he says they would need doing for peace of mind.

I moved up to the Humber a little bit ago so I don't really know anyone, if it had been Pompey or other places I would have had no bother getting a pros opinion.

I have measured them so many times against the manual directions, still like you say, how do I know they right, I am not that gifted.

All I can do now the original dealer has fucked me off is get them in somewhere else, they all charge the same around here to check and at least this dealer said he would exchange shims if needed.

You are totally right I have no idea if he or anyone else would do the job properly, but alas I have no other options.

I have put the bike back together, and it sits there waiting for the 22nd real pisser as I like to ride most days.

I am even contemplating stripping it again just to check it again, but that is paranoia

Being that far out it should run like a dog yeh but it doesn't so I need it checked or I need to give up bikes cos I truly would be the biggest nob in history if I measured them all wrong.

But alas no way of knowing.

Cheers

Ian

[UK_Vstrom650]

Which dealer are you going to use? Maybe someone has used them before & can give you a review.

[kwackboy]

GW is correct , your clearances wouldn't have closed up that much in such a short period of mileage. 
Yes, the gaps (if measured correctly) are a little on the tight side but the tolerance differences you are referring to are minor , I wouldn't worry too much about riding your bike. 
Because of your recent experience whoever you take your bike to you will always have doubts so why don't you try to find a real good independent service / repair shop who has good reviews or maybe someone on this forum has used someone good ?. Also, Make sure you ask them to adjust your clearances to the top end of the given tolerance, that way you don't need to check them again.

Even better, maybe someone on here local-ish is willing to help you through the process, then you will know for for definite your clearances are OK .

Hope you get it sorted ..  

[Hugh Mungus]

or I need to give up bikes cos I truly would be the biggest nob in history if I measured them all wrong.

Nope. I totally disagree with that.

A mate, who happens to be an engineer, came round to my house to ask what the noise was on his XR600. As soon as I heard it I said 'One tappet is a mile out' - "Can't be, I've just checked them" was the reply.
It was one tappet!
He is a qualified engineer. He measures things to fine tolerances all day, every day. And he still got it wrong on one occasion.
I am not an engineer or a mechanic, I am a lorry driver.

So, if you did happen to measure it wrong, don't give up bikes just learn how to measure!

Ask for the mechanic to supply measurements before and after so you can compare your own findings.