Author Topic: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee  (Read 6286 times)

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Offline FuelDrinker

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Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« on: November 23, 2016, 21:25:55 »
Hello folks,

we've met in person in Wales in August, now it's time to go virtual :)

What I've spotted today is that the Oxford grips that were usually hot were barely warm today and that for most of the time a green LED which says "Battery saving mode" has been on. This made me thinking that I might have a problem with my battery - it looks to be stock (2012 Glee) and the bike will soon be 5 years old with almost 30k on the clock.

I've just checked the voltages and they are as follows:

Bike turned off - ~12.1V on the battery terminals
Bike turned on, idling, hi beam on - ~11.9V on the battery terminals
Bike turned on, 5k RPM, hi beam on - ~12.5V on the battery terminals
Engine cranking - ~10-11V, difficult to check with a digital multimeter as it's response time is longer than it takes for the engine to start.

I've tried following the service manual and @5k RPM the charging voltage should be around 14.0-15.5V. In order to then properly diagnose which part/element of the sustem is broken I'd have to take the fuel tank off and take some additional measurements but I am wondering if it's worth a try to replace the battery first. After all the last point in the diagnosis algorithm in the service manual (should the wire harness, R/R, generator be OK) is to replace the battery. What do you think team?  :fix:

Offline kwackboy

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2016, 21:53:09 »
Personally as your battery is 5 years old I'd try a new battery first then recheck the voltages. If your new results are still low I'd check the stator first.
You don't need to take your tank off as you can check the stator connection where it meets the regulator on the right hand side of your bike between the frame struts 
Chief trouble maker 🙂

Offline mct25

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 22:23:03 »
just had the same problem. It was the stator. Spent 950 euro trying to find the problem. Look no further.

Offline greywolf

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 22:52:20 »
With those numbers, the stator is the most likely culprit.
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline FuelDrinker

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2016, 12:22:50 »
Cheers folks
 :ty:
 I'll investigate further and I'll let you know what I come up with.

Offline FuelDrinker

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2016, 20:07:44 »
An update. I've just checked the generator as per the service manual.

Thanks to you folks (cheers @kwackboy) I was able to do it without removing the tank.

Generator coil resistance was 0.6 ohm between all three coils and the resistance between coils and ground were all infinite.  :thumb:

Next came the voltage check. 58V between the first pair, 68V between the second pair and 1V between the third pair. There we've got the verdict - faulty generator.

I've already ordered a stator, hopefully the couriers will not get too busy during the black Friday tomorrow and I'll get the parts (stator + gasket) to replace them over the weekend  :fix:

I'd like to avoid draining the engine oil but I think it's inevitable, right? Well, I'll replace the oil sooner than I wanted - I am sure it won't cause the engine any harm  :)

Offline kwackboy

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2016, 20:21:54 »
Glad you found the problem.   :thumb:
If I'm changing stators in customers bikes I always give the stator fresh oil .
Once you remove the stator would you mind telling me at what point the stator is burnt ? I'm suspecting the top .
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Offline Graham62

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2016, 22:05:20 »
And can you take some  photos and post them on here please ?
A drunken man's words are a sober man's thoughts.

Graham

Offline markrob

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2016, 15:51:45 »
Hello All

Where did you buy your new stator & how much please?

I have been quoted £281 inc vat from Suzuki Uk, but £158 for a pattern one with 1 years warranty from Suzuki Germany inc p&p

Regards

Offline Hugh Mungus

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2016, 06:32:13 »
As a quick guide for fault finding...
Low voltage = Suspect generator.
High voltage = Suspect rectifier.

I've had a couple of Suzuki generators fail, seems to be a weak point, I've had them fail on other bikes too though. 11.97 Volts is a number that crops up regularly when a generator coil has failed.

Offline FuelDrinker

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2016, 18:36:56 »
Job done, everything is working fine! Thanks for all your help blokes! The voltage between the coils is 3*75V and idle charging voltage is around 14V. I've also installed a new battery so I'll ride with it for a couple of hours to charge it fully and then I'll test the charging voltage @ 5k rpm to confirm that the R/R is not faulty.

Questions time!

Glad you found the problem.   :thumb:
If I'm changing stators in customers bikes I always give the stator fresh oil .
Once you remove the stator would you mind telling me at what point the stator is burnt ? I'm suspecting the top .

I've changed both the oil and the filter. It's hard for me to tell which part of the stator is burnt, it looks fine if you just look at it, nothing like the pictures I've googled before.

This is my old stator taken off the bike. It looks just like the one I've bought.



I haven't thrown it away yet so let me know if you want me to test it somehow.

Hello All

Where did you buy your new stator & how much please?

I have been quoted £281 inc vat from Suzuki Uk, but £158 for a pattern one with 1 years warranty from Suzuki Germany inc p&p

Regards

I've always preferred buying used genuine items than new aftermarket ones (new OEM ones are the best of course if you are willing to spend cash). I've found an eBay auction and I've bought a stator taken off from a 2016 bike. It's supposed to have done only 3k miles. We'll see - I've paid £105 for it shipped. eBay link. Plus £18 for the gasket shipped from Fowlers. You could probably found these cheaper but I was pushed for time. I've ordered the parts on Thursday and I needed them on Friday to replace the stator over the weekend.

And can you take some  photos and post them on here please ?

Sure thing. I've followed the service manual as it explains the process quite well. I've taken some photos though.

Must haves in my opinion are:
A set of Allen keys - although you will only need 5 and 6 mm if I am not mistaken
A set of metric sockets - again, you will only need 8 and 14 mm if I remember correctly.
Flat screwdriver as a universal tool :)
Cleaner - I've used a brake cleaner
Torque wrench - I've used my trusty Proxxon 3-15 Nm wrench, it covers most of torques you will need for engine works - at least the ones with "small" bolts.

Nice to have is:
A work bench :)
Rubber mallet

A very nice to have is:
A gasket scraper

So what you do first is you remove the engine sprocket cover and mud guard/skid plate. You'll need hex keys for that.





Then you have to drain the oil (14 mm socket). Make sure to recycle it properly!







Remove the speed sensor (5 mm hex key and 8 mm sockets).





Remove the clutch release arm (8 mm socket), spring and washer. I've been struggling to remove it, make sure you don't use too much force as it looks to be quite fragile. Try to move it around, maybe use a rubber mallet. To make sure I put it back in the same place I've marked it with a Sharpie only to see that there are marks on the arm and shaft. My Sharpie marking came off after I've touched them anyway :)



The next thing I've removed were the generator wires. The plugs are visible if you look from the right hand side in between the frame. One plug has three yellow wires, another has two - one white and one green. You'll have to open the zip tie as well. It's the type that you can open and tighten as make times as you want. There is a tab there that you have to press/pull. Make sure not to open it all the way as it might be difficult to tighten it again once the parts come apart. Just loosen it enough to get the connectors through.







Now get back to the left hand side of the bike and open the clamp holding the wires in place.



I forgot to take a photo of the cover before I took it off but the manual says which bolts to undo.



Once the bolts are removed remove the cover. You might find it a bit hard - try hitting it with your palm or a rubber mallet if you need to. Once loosen you might feel that something is holding the cover in place, it feels like a spring if you like. Don't worry - it's probably both the old gasket and magneto's magnet holding the cover. Keep pulling until the parts come apart.
Once the cover is out remove the old stator and CKP sensor.



Remove the dovel pins and starter idle shaft. I had to take everything apart two times because after putting everything back together I've realised that the starter idle shaft fell on the floor and I've missed it.



Clean the cover from the inside and remove any residue of the old gasket. This is when the gasket scraper would come handy. If you don't have one (like me) you can use a flat screwdriver, wrap it with a rag and try to clean both the cover and engine surfaces. Just make sure you re-wrap it frequently as the sharp edge of the screwdriver easily cuts through the rug and you don't want to be scraping aluminium parts of the engine with your screwdriver. Put the new stator back in and tighten it to the specified torque. Make sure you install the clamp when installing the CKP sensor. It should either come with your stator or you can use the old one.

Tightening torque for the stator is 11 Nm and for the CKP sensor it's 6.5 Nm.



Install the dovel pins and the starter shaft (lube it with oil first) to the engine side, put the new gasket on the cleaned engine side. Be careful to properly align the dovel pins and the starter shaft against the. You will probably feel the magnet pulling the cover so be please don't let your fingers get caught between the parts. Clean and apply grease to the clutch push rod.





Reinstall everything in the reverse order. Tighten the generator cover bolts (10 Nm), install the speed sensor (4.5 Nm). Route the wiring harness, put the plugs back in, install the clutch release arm (remember about the marks there), spring and washer - tighten the clutch release arm bolt to 9 Nm. Install the engine sprocket cover (5.5 Nm).

Pour new engine oil, make sure the are no leaks and that the pol level is correct. Reinstall the mud guard.

Enjoy :)

Service manual guides you thought the process quite well so refer to it in case you get lost.
Imgur album
I am alto attaching photos to this post in case Imgur decides to delete it.

Offline greywolf

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2016, 19:00:25 »
It's nice to see the rotor has integrated magnets rather than the individual glued on ones. It looks like the stator was a victim of vibration rather than heat. It can be hard to tell if the darker section at the bases of the coils just above the crankshaft position sensor was due to heat or thicker epoxy though.
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline MartinW

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2016, 19:03:47 »
Great update that - Thanks very much  :thumb:
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Offline kwackboy

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2016, 19:17:03 »
Nice write up  :thumb:.
Had a good look your stator and yes I echo greywolf's thoughts. Looks like vibration could be the cause. I don't see that too often.
Chief trouble maker 🙂

Offline FuelDrinker

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Re: Low charging voltage - 2012 Glee
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 19:59:14 »
Hi Folks,

just an update on my repair - as promised. Charging voltage checked as per service manual is 14.5V @5k revs. Everything is back to normal therefore I consider this repair a success.
Bust just like the other members, I've received a letter from Suzuki today about a recall regarding the stator - bugger! I don't think that my post will be found useful with everyone riding with a new stator. Too bad they don't refund self-repairs ###
Go and book an appointment if you qualify for a repair