V-Strom DL650 Brake Bleeding

[Fat Rat]

This is probably pointing out what most of you already know but I thought I'd share my success with bleeding the front brakes on my 08 DL650 (non ABS).

The brakes have always been soft, by that I mean the lever travels much further than I am comfortable with. I have bled them numerous times, manually and with a Mitivac, the results have always been the same. I should point out that the brakes work, they stop the bike, if I didn't have access to other bikes with far superior brakes then I may even have got used to the V-Strom shit brakes.

I fitted braided lines, If I'm honest I was expecting a significant lasting difference but never got that. After doing some research I followed this simple tip.

1. Bleed both Calipers in whatever way you are comfortable with
2. Ensure the Master Cylinder is only half full
3. Remove each Caliper and force the Pistons all the way home (this forces any air back up)
4. Cable tie the lever overnight.
5. Release lever, top up Master Cylinder and admire your new found firmness 

My brakes are now significantly improved 

This is what I used to push the pistons back.

[Snapper]

Interesting  !

I went through the various options for firming up my Glee's brakes a couple of months ago and after reading numerous accounts from owners who said that braided hoses had made little or no difference, I decided to revisit the whole bleeding process (that's 'fluid bleeding', as opposed to needless swearing  ).

Someone else had recommended putting pressure on the brake lever and leaving it overnight, so I bled both calipers again and held the brake on (hard) with a cargo strap for a couple of days. Even after that, there was no improvement.

The crucial step that was missing from my 'recipe' was the pushing in of the pistons - maybe this is where the air is hiding  !?

Thanks for the hint. I will try this again (once the weather improves)  .

[Rich:-)]

I'm wanting to do mine soon..

Quick question - do I treat mine (which has ABS) as I would any non-ABS bike, or is there a special procedure in which a service mode has to be set in order to purge the ABS system?
The wee is the first bike I've had with ABS btw.

[grumps]

I just bled mine using a vacuum pump and brakes work fine.

But reading this is there more I can do? I don't want to remove the calipers as suggested but I have heard of the lever- tying trick and have used it on another bike to great effect.

Would tying the lever back and giving the calipers some taps with a rubber mallet encourage any remaining air to bubble up the lines?

Thanks

[Snapper]

In my case, it didn't help at all, although I didn't use the mallet, admittedly  .

There's still way too much travel at the lever - it comes almost far enough back to touch the bars (although I do have very thick Datatool heated grips  ).

It seems that there is still air trapped somewhere and I suspect it might be in the calipers themselves.

[UK_Vstrom650]

Mine are like that Snapper. I just assumed it was crap Suzuki brakes on the Glee. I had to do a caliper strip last year to replace some seals so may have been air trapped in,  though I bled them similar to FR and suspended the handlebars as high as brake line would allow this the brake lever cable-tied back for a good 24hrs (was changing fork oil at the time).

Next time I'm in a dealership (recall work) I'll check the brake lever on a new Glee to see if they are as pants as I think, or if there's still air in the system.

[Immingham]

This advice will be tried tomorrow, calipers rebuilt, braided lines fitted, new pads and now a spongy lever.🤣🙄

[bosnjo]

You have air in the system. It can take some time for that air to travel to bleeding nipples. I had similar problem and had to reflush whole the system with 3 times more brake fluid then needed, just to make sure there was no air left.

[endintears]

Yes you may still have air trapped in the hydraulic circuit.

But I think it's much more likely that it's just budget Tokico axial caliper syndrome.

The movement at the lever is not as air is being compressed but as the mechanical slack is taken up at the calipers, if you watch as you apply pressure you will almost certainly see them flexing on the guide pins.
The syndrome bit is this.
Brakes seizing [lever hard(ish)] so strip/service all nice and free now
Reassemble but soft lever now  so you think I haven't bled them properly so now begin repeated attempts using different techniques to find/expel that elusive air.
Many posts on this forum describing exactly the same scenario.

However in my experience it's probably just that there's a little more free play with everything cleaned up and the ratio between distance travelled at the lever [end] and movement at the callipers is high.

[Immingham]

So it could just be crappy caliper syndrome, it that case what other calipers fit. 
Upgrade time...

[Robotstar5]

Not had problems with my current bike, but in the past I've used a 200ml syringe with a bit of pipe over the bleed nipple to push the fluid "backwards" through the system.

[endintears]

Quote from myself.
 "Yes you may still have air trapped in the hydraulic circuit.

But I think it's much more likely that it's just budget Tokico axial caliper syndrome.

The movement at the lever is not as air is being compressed but as the mechanical slack is taken up at the calipers, if you watch as you apply pressure you will almost certainly see them flexing on the guide pins.
The syndrome bit is this.
Brakes seizing [lever hard(ish)] so strip/service all nice and free now
Reassemble but soft lever now  so you think I haven't bled them properly so now begin repeated attempts using different techniques to find/expel that elusive air.
Many posts on this forum describing exactly the same scenario.
However in my experience it's probably just that there's a little more free play with everything cleaned up and the ratio between distance travelled at the lever [end] and movement at the callipers is high. "

Have the caliper off whilst refreshing the paint on the fork stanchions with a bit of satin black so thought I would try something.
 
Brakes on my Wee same as many (all?) 650 owners in that the brakes stop the bike OK but a soft lever that with the bike stationary I can nearly squeeze back to the bars.
Clamped the pistons back into the caliper with a couple of G cramps and there's now half the movement at the lever so theory proved I think.
Be wonderful if the lever felt like that normally

[Sage]

I just tried the syringe reverse bleed method above and it works great  It is so much easier to do to than conventional bleeding.

[V-Twin]

Sometimes another fault could lye in the master cylinder.
Many times on other peeps bikes with this problem, I have removed M/C & piston, with the seals on.
Cleaned out the internal of m/c particularly the outer most end.(with brake cleaner)
This is where the piston inside comes back to.
More than often the piston isn't returning far enough up the cylinder. This causes the movement you all talk about.
If the seals have expanded with age, this is then the time to replace the m/c seals, as this too can cause that problem.

[hotbulb]

Time to replace the fluid on the Glee:  fluid delivered today. Hopefully fairly straightforward. But, as I have plenty of time on my hands (in Wales, so the bike's dormant!), and a set of HEL braided brakelines, and some new pads, it could be a chance to change the lot. Before I bite off too much, could the collective mind let me know what's involved by way of bodywork removal etc? How is access to the fixed line to hose joints by the radiator? Thanks in advance.

[UK_Vstrom650]

I did my front brake lines last year. From what I remember, I didn't have to remove any panels etc to install. I think the joints were just about accessible without the radiator being in the way (I certainly didn't remove the radiator). It all seemed to go pretty straight forward.
The rear lines on the other hand are still sat in the box. Mainly due to a bolt holding my rear hugger on didn't seem to want to come out of the swingarm and I need to remove that to provide access - which I'm hoping to have without removing the exhaust...

[king1]

Help needed
I've had a caliper rebuild done
Before they were done the abs light came on and will not go out
The brakes have been bled
The problem is
I still don't have any brakes
My next option is to take it to a proper motorbike garage
Any help
But keep it in simple terms
Thanks

[UK_Vstrom650]

Is that front and back brakes or just one of them? What was the braking like before the rebuild (did they work when the ABS light was on)? I hope it's not a dreaded ABS pump failure...