Author Topic: Possible fuel/injector issue (Read 32193 times)

greywolf · « **Reply #60 on:** February 27, 2016, 17:57:23 »

http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,3981.0.html

There is a reference there to a few quotes in manuals including yours. 1200ml in 30 seconds is the minimum rate a new Vee or pre K7 Wee pump should provide. Much below half that and problems become evident.

Given further information, a post K7 pump may provide less as a 650 won't need as much fuel but the amount shown here isn't enough.

greywolf · « **Reply #61 on:** February 27, 2016, 18:13:23 »

I went back and took a look at the K4 Wee manual. It also has 168ml in 10 seconds so that number may be a lower limit or just plain wrong. The Wee from K4-K6 had the same pump as the Vee.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #62 on:** February 27, 2016, 18:53:39 »

It is an interesting subject and I may even email Suzuki for a definitive view, either way, my test probably produced around 100ml in 30 seconds so there is clearly a problem

Gassoon · « **Reply #63 on:** March 01, 2016, 16:13:34 »

Just caught up on this -

Fat Rat. Bloody good on Your

Is there any rust in the tank, or just 'gunge'? Only way I have ever cleaned out tanks (many years ago, on a 2-stroke single, and a Bonneville) was ball bearings (or new, small, nuts and bolts) and petrol and lots of tedious shaking of tank, empty, rinse, repeat. I probably sniffed more vapours than was good for me, though

Afterwards I assiduously kept the tank full of fuel as much as possible - filling up after a run, for example.

There's probably a magic spray that does the job, now

PS: great advising there, Pat

Hope you aren't still snowed in over there!

greywolf · « **Reply #64 on:** March 01, 2016, 17:50:37 »

The snow has been minimal this year, unlike the last two.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #65 on:** March 03, 2016, 13:10:12 »

This process has taught me a thing or two, this being one.

Fat Rat's guide to guaranteed after sales revenue.

1. Make sure that your product has a design flaw

2. Make sure that this flaw is guaranteed to affect every item eventually. A good suggestion would be to make it part of the fuel system.

3. Make sure that the part(s) that fail are in the most inconvenient location possible meaning that they are unlikely to be treated during routine maintenance.

4. This step is essential, make sure after putting your customer through steps 1 - 3 that you charge a ridiculous amount of money for the badly designed part, let's start at over £100

5. When you send the part to the customer, have the decency to use a really oversized box so they think they are getting value for money.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #66 on:** March 03, 2016, 13:20:53 »

Actually, despite the rant above, stripping the Pump is quite straightforward. My advice to everyone is to make sure to use a permanent marker to mark up the cable connections. I cleverly marked up the plastic body of the pump assembly

Then washed it off with Carb Cleaner

Anyhoo.. It all comes apart quite easily.

After paying over £100 for the Regulator/Filter I was tempted to clean the Strainer, after all, how bad could it be?

There were bits of the broken up Strainer everywhere, it's likely that it could have even caused the blockage. Suzuki wanted £30 for this

fortunately there is a pattern version for around £8.

I spent a bit of time giving everthing a thorough clean.

Reassembly is easy.

I'm just finishing cleaning the Tank, I hope to repeat the flow test later this evening.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #67 on:** March 03, 2016, 15:21:51 »

This is flow test 2

It was carried out without the use of a lovely assistant so there was a slight bit of spillage at the end

As soon as the Pump fired up I could see that the flow was dramatically improved.

Allowing for the spillage, I make that 500ml in 30 seconds (you may not be able to see the numbers on the jug so take my word for it)

Fat Rat · « **Reply #68 on:** March 03, 2016, 15:23:57 »

That's all lovely of course, however, she won't start

No errors, the Pump does its thing and the bike turns over as expected but she won't fire

greywolf · « **Reply #69 on:** March 03, 2016, 15:57:10 »

500ml in 30 seconds is not great but the engine should start. Have you tried opening the throttle as it may be flooded? Since the pump has been problematical, it may not be putting out the required 43psi. You replaced the pressure regulator along with the filter but there may be a partially blocked passage.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #70 on:** March 03, 2016, 16:10:22 »

I've tried WOT Pat and no success.

I could understand it if it fired and then died but to not fire at all is odd. I have pulled the fuel connector off to make sure she is still pumping fuel since reassembly and all is well.

greywolf · « **Reply #71 on:** March 03, 2016, 16:31:34 »

Can you connect the pump output to pressure gauge? Did you check for spark?

Fat Rat · « **Reply #72 on:** March 03, 2016, 17:58:49 »

Spark is good.

I've just stripped the Pump assembly again and re-seated everything. I don't have a pressure gauge that I can connect but I can tell that the pressure is three or four times what is was before. I appreciate that isn't very scientific but the difference is obvious.

The bike started before with the lower pressure

Regarding the fuel measurement, fuel still flows after I remove the 12v supply during the flow test, I assume that this is fuel that has filled the chamber the Pumps sits in and that for fuel to still flow is normal?

greywolf · « **Reply #73 on:** March 03, 2016, 18:22:36 »

The only reason I can think of for fuel to keep flowing is the motor takes a little while to spin down. On the bike in normal service, the injectors will be closed and that fuel would be diverted back into the tank. The regulator puts 43psi into the outlet tube and any over pressure pumps back into the tank.

With the tube open in the test, you have flow but can't measure the pressure. The outlet has to be stoppered for pressure to build. You might have something that isn't seated well enough to allow pressure to build. There is a rule of thumb here. The pump should put out enough pressure that you can't hold back the fuel by putting your thumb on the outlet pipe.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #74 on:** March 03, 2016, 18:36:02 »

OK, prepare for a picture of a bruised thumb to be uploaded.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #75 on:** March 03, 2016, 18:47:24 »

There was very little (if any) resistance to my pinky under the flow test conditions

I have ordered a new Pump, watch this space.

Gassoon · « **Reply #76 on:** March 03, 2016, 19:19:39 »

Good work, and thanks for posting it up, very interesting, Andy. Such great effort, that when you get it going I'll send you some of the V-Strom uk stickers I just rediscovered lurking under my computer

Fat Rat · « **Reply #77 on:** March 07, 2016, 14:20:26 »

The new Fuel Pump arrived today, the flow test is again improved, approx 1 litre in 30 seconds, however, the bike will not start. Even after continuous cranking there is no smell of fuel. I pull the connector off of the Tank and the pressure is very good when cranking the engine.

I have a question about the connector, the spring clip that I'd expect to live inside the connector is loose on the Tank outlet, it does locate as expected when the connector is pushed home but I was wondering if that connector could be causing a problem?

Flow test 3. (Hopefully this demonstrates the increased output pressure)

It seems odd that there is no O Ring here?

greywolf · « **Reply #78 on:** March 07, 2016, 15:00:09 »

So you have a new motor, screen and filter/regulator rather than a new pump unit. It looks like you are missing O-ring #6, part # 15113-35F00
The pump is set up for the regulator to keep up a constant 43psi. It does this by sending excess back into the tank. If you have any missing or damaged seals, the pump will be sending needing volume and pressure back into the tank rather than to the injectors.

Fat Rat · « **Reply #79 on:** March 07, 2016, 15:14:32 »

Pat, the O Ring you quote, is that for the part I have the yellow arrow pointing at?