FI Error

[jimbo8098]

Hi everyone,

Breaking a long hiatus to request some assistance with an FI error I'm seeing on the V-Strom 650 2012. The issue started just yesterday, it was pretty cold (4 of your finest centigrades), and I was on my way to get some bulbs from a DIY shop just down the road. I jump on the Strom and ride down, bike running fine, no problems.

Then I get out and jump back on...

I started the bike and the tickover is really high, around 2.5 on the ol' richter scale. Usually, I'm hovering around 1-1.5 so bit out of the ordinary. Also, the big red FI light is on on the dash. I stop the bike and start it again and the light is still on, high revs too. With the bike having been sitting in the cold for a few nights (not long, 1 day or 2) I put it down to the weather and drive home.

There is some slight popping but nothing concerning. I get home and stick the bike in the garden, stop it and start it again and the red light is gone, the bike is running as it always does, as if nothing happened.

Now today, thinking it was just a one-time thing, I jump on the bike to go to work. Again, I notice that the revs are high. At this stage, I'm thinking the problem might simply be that I hadn't ridden it for a while and it just needed a blow through (again, with the cold). I run it into work with the high revs and when I stop at some lights about half way there, I stop and start the bike again and the revs are back to normal and FI is gone once more, like nothing happened, running like a dream.

When I get home (the same thing happened again), I leave the bike for a few hours and the issue returns, back to FI. So I put the bike into dealer mode to see if any more information is given but there's nothing. No error codes, no CHEC, nothing.

I've got my restricted ECU in the cupboard, I'll try that tomorrow and see if that helps but once again the workshop manual from Suzuki fails to impress with it's troubleshooting. I think putting in our spare battery may help too (just to tick that off the list).

Any ideas folks?

[greywolf]

The FI needs to be active for the code to be read using dealer mode. You can ride the bike just fine in dealer mode. Try that so you'll be able to read the code the next time it comes up. You can also find somebody with a Healtech OBD tool or a dealer with the Suzuki SDS diagnostic tool. They can read and clear old stored codes whereas the dealer mode only reads active codes.

[Hugo Magnus]

Someone been fiddling with the bike whilst parked at the DIY shop ?

[jimbo8098]

Hi again everyone,

Thanks for all your input.

Put my bike into dealer mode last night.

Took the bike to work today, same issue this morning. Figured I'd check the fuses at lunch time. After checking the fuses, found everything was OK. So I tried to find the source of the clicking from before and found it was somewhere below the fuel tank. Knowing that there is only the carburetor and the engine down there, I presumed the issue was there since the error code on my dash was 28 and 65. I checked error code 28 on the handy Vstrom rescue app:

viewtopic.php?f=58&t=17006

and found this was to do with the Secondary Throttle Valve Actuator (STVA). This isn't something I knew about but putting two and two together, it had to be something to do with the throttle, a valve and a motor (actuator)    so the only thing I knew that ticked those boxes was the carburetor.

The other code wasn't on the app so must be a less regular one.

I wasn't about to pull my plastic off over lunch so left it, besides, I wanted to check the manual before going in guns blazing.

Got home after work and checked the codes in the manual (Page 1A-22, took me ages to find it!) and 28 was the STVA as expected and 65 was a high idle speed (the rev counter was at 2.5 as opposed to 1-1.5). Presumed these were part of the same issue.

So, took the plastics off to get a look at the carburetor. Had to remove the airbox too. With everything off, I turned on the bike and let the self-check run through. I could see that where the carburetor flaps (I have zero idea of the technical name) used to open nice and smooth (from previous trips to carbtown), they now stayed in roughly the same place. The clicking was clearly coming from the motor that sits just beside the rearmost carburetor. I felt the clicking on the motor as the self-check "completed" so it was this motor either struggling or stuck.

Turned the bike back off and tried turning the flap using the rod that joins the front and rear carburetor flaps together so they both move and I could feel it was pretty difficult. Not totally siezed but sticky enough to stop a small motor from turning. So that explains the clicking!

Disconnected the rod and started the self-check again, the carburetor flap didn't open again. That narrowed down the issue (but didn't rule out the frontmost one).

Started rotating the flap by hand again and saw a big load of grit come out from the joint, as I turned to both extremities, the grit loosened and the join became free once more. Did the same with the other carburetor and tried the self-check yet again. This time, it was much smoother.

Now that those were moving freely, I wanted to see if the same error code came up so I put the airbox back on and tried to fire up the engine without the tank and found the bike wouldn't start. "Uh-oh" I thought. So connected the white connector on the bottom of the tank back up and tried to start the bike again... "Oh, have I just wet myself" I think. "Has my bladder just given up with this whole ordeal?". The smell of petrol gave me the answer I needed.

It turns out the connector fires the fuel injector so my bike just peed petrol on me!  

Connected the fuel line up, started the bike and whrrrrrrrr-click , just like new! Started the bike up and it was sounding as it always did as well. The error was gone, replaced with a nice C00 code (Everything's cool).

I'm leaving the plastics off tonight and taking my mum's bike tomorrow, when I get back I'll give this section a good de-grit and go over all the connectors since it's a horrid bit for the muck! I'm not going to open up the carburetor but I think it will be worth doing this at the weekend to make sure everything is nice and smooth.

Beware blokes! This area looks really susceptible to road yuck!

EDIT:

Here's some videos so you blokes can see what I mean:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/su81omp77l34ri5/VIDEO0058.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oi323uo1m8gxj7m/VIDEO0002.mp4?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa2s97jpnv8mahe/VIDEO0001.mp4?dl=0

[greywolf]

That's a throttle valve, the TV part of STVA, not a carburetor. Fuel injected bikes don't have carburetors. The "flaps" are butterflies. The motor controlled ones are secondary, the S in STVA, and the primary butterflies are controlled by the throttle cables.

[UK_Vstrom650]

Glad you seem to have resolved the issue  

My Glee had a sticky throttle body (or something) - lots of WD40 freed it up nicely

[jimbo8098]

Thanks greywolf, I know what it does, not the name though haha, too used to working on older bikes!

That explains the name at least

[obalanga]

thank you for posting your videos up. Great for other learners like I am. I was a bit thrown off by you calling them carbs as I thought a 2012 model would be induction. Nonetheless thanks for the heads up and any reply grey wolf gives is always worth a read.

[greywolf]

Carburetors use a venturi effect to draw fuel into the airstream from the carb float bowl through jets and, usually, a tapered needle valve. Motorcycle carbs often use a slide to open the airway rather than a butterfly.

Throttle bodies control air flow but have no fuel involvement. Fuel is injected into the combustion chamber under pressure from the fuel pump by the ECM controlling the amount of time the injector is opened with a constant pressure feed.

[jimbo8098]

OK, while it seems to work in theory and everything sounds much smoothers, still not too sure on the sounds I'm hearing. These clicks are happening again today so I'm convinced there's something still not quite right. Thinking of taking the throttle body off and having a look to see if there's anything siezed.

Was checking on some of the old forum posts:

http://www.stromtrooper.com/maintenance ... odies.html

The fault code has cleared now. I guess that's because the STVA is happy again now. We never forced anything. We just gave the linkages plenty of Duck Oil and flicked the kill switch on and off a few times to get the thing to cycle though.

http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,14405.0.html

It turns out that the front shaft was seized on mine as well - my mechanic has freed it and the FI light has gone away.

http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,12404.0.html

I carefully tapped the shaft out (seriously stuck) then cleaned the surfaces till spotless and applied copper grease.
...
The bike seems to be running fine.

Now on the older models, it seems the rod I've been looking at is located inside the throttle body but on mine this looks to be one the outside (like in the videos).

I don't see any way to pull the butterflies out to see if there is anything located on the internals which might be stopping easy rotation of the butterflies but then this area should be pretty sterile since it goes through a sponger in the air box (ie, no dust or bits of smashed badger).

It looks like the butterflies are fine but I'm not sure they are optimal.

Will let you blokes know how I get on.

[greywolf]

Are you still getting an FI and have running problems? The STVA butterflies and Idle Speed Control Valve are run by stepper motors. Stepper motors click at each step. Some clicking is normal, even for a couple of seconds after the ignition is shut off.

[jimbo8098]

No, not getting any FI issues now, looks to have cleared now. The bulk of the clicking is gone now too. Everything is back together now so should be able to take it a run tomorrow and see what's up.

[jimbo8098]

Results are not good, I'm afraid. Started the bike earlier yesterday and the initial startup was just fine, nice tickover but I let the bike heat up for about 5 mins while I tended to the chain and found that the FI light was back on. Didn't have the bike in dealer mode but just checked the bike with dealer mode on there (same happened a few mins ago) and the C28 error came back up again.

No issue with the high idle speed like there was before.

Also seeing strange readouts on the speedometer (100mph when going about 50) so I think there may be something going on with the speed sensor as well.

Thinking of taking it over to Saltire motorcycles to see if they can determine what's up with it.

[mjc506]

Hmm... you've got a dodgy connection somewhere, or perhaps a low battery. Worth checking the battery voltage when the bike's off, as you turn the ignition on, and while the bike's running at idle and ~3500rpm. Then it's probably worth checking the larger connectors at the front of the bike. I'm not familiar with the Glee harness, but start pulling connectors apart and I imagine you'll find one with a corroded connection or two!

[jimbo8098]

Here's what I'm hearing when I run the bike.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/upqtpugnafrfpxx/2015-01-13%2007.52.11.mp4?dl=0

Called Saltire and.they said best they could do was rebuild but they said (unofficially) that it would be best to clean the butterfly and try again

[greywolf]

That is the sound of a sticking stepper motor. Clean and lubricate the linkage from the motor to the butterfly.

[UK_Vstrom650]

If GW is correct (he usually is) I had similar issue on my Glee - gave me Cruise Control... plenty of WD40 resolved the issue  

[jimbo8098]

So my previous attempt failed, the FI light came on the very next time I tried so the problem was deeper than we first thought.

I took the entire assembly off which is a horrible task because the jubilee clips are so difficult to access, however, I managed. With it off the bike I could see how things fit together and get the bit in the house, out of the cold with a coffee.

So with the bit on my trusty kitchen table I got to work taking it apart. Here's some pictures I took to try and help people take this £200 part the manual says "you can't take apart" apart.

IMAG0563
IMAG0585
IMAG0586
IMAG0587
IMAG0588
IMAG0590
IMAG0589
IMAG0594
IMAG0595


I wish I'd taken more pictures but here's some things to be aware of:

- Make sure you get the white plastic bits on the right way. Those stop the springs going squinty. This helps with the parts moving freely.
- Watch out for the little seals either end of the rods. They are pretty easy to lose if you aren't careful.
- Remember that this bit is right on top of your engine so make sure to cover the entries in the second picture. You will see those at the bottom. Put a CLEAN rag in there to block out any dust that might get in your engine.
- Beware of the cheese screws on the butterflys. Those are really fragile, probably the main reason I'd use for supporting to £200 new bit.
- I found that grease actually stopped the part moving as freely so settled with a little bit of multipurpose on the seals to catch the dust. I wanted to shy away from putting it on the rod anyway since it might get blown into the engine which wouldn't be ideal.
- Be careful to note your throttle cable positions since one is longer than the other and they both do different things.
- The screws on the butterflys. The bottom one in each cylinder (the yellowy ones) had the screw facing the engine. The one on top had the screw facing the top of the bike. Not sure why they don't both point up but might be significant.
- When putting it all back on, make sure the fuel lines CLICK. Mine felt solid but, after starting and stopping the bike, the pressure pulled the fuel line out. I wondered what the noise was and tried to start again and found that fuel FLEW out of the fuel line (as it would). The line felt solid to me but save yourself about 10 minutes by giving that line a good tug before you pull out the fuel tank and fit it on!


When everything is clear, you should be able to move the secondary valve knob with nothing more than the strength you'd use to scratch a nutsack. Nice and easy. Remember a little motor is all that stands between the error and a perfectly working bike. All that was stopping mine was a tiny bit of grit, that's all it takes. Gives you an idea of the forces at work I suppose.

That solved my FI problems, now onto the next ones and we well deserved clean I think.

[Razvan]

Hello everyone

Probably someone has had this issue before but I read the topics and couldn't find.

So my DL1000, 2014, after 2 months sitting in the garage, I started the engine and F1 led showed up and CHECK on the odometer.
I tried the dealer mode trick and C00 came up (no error).
Started the bike again, same F1 led pup up again. I checked the tip over sensor, fuses, connections, everything seems to be fine. Although the bike drives OK, I want to get rid of that fault.
Bike it's abroad at the moment and md probably someone deal with this before and it's able to help me with this.

Cheers

[Barbel Mick]

@ Razvan, you've posted your question in a thread that is five years old. You may get more help if you start another thread in this section.