Author Topic: ABS kicking in too early  (Read 14809 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline iansoady

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 489
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2014, 14:50:20 »
I think the ability to use the brakes (probably especially non-ABS) to the full is essential and well worth practising regularly.
Ian.
2005 DL650
1931 Sunbeam Model 10

Offline Tim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 38
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2014, 21:31:24 »
Quote from: "iansoady"
I think the ability to use the brakes (probably especially non-ABS) to the full is essential and well worth practising regularly.

I did a Hopp rider training day a few years ago, the first part of training was locking the front to get a "feel" for it. Well worth trying.

I stumbled across this thread http://www.v-strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=14214 with people, including frez, complaining of pretty much this problem on the 650's, maybe it really is just a over sensitive (Shit) system. I'll have a chat with my dealer to see if anyone else has mentioned it.

Offline greywolf

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 5262
  • Location: Evanston IL USA
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2014, 21:48:17 »
If the ABS activates, there was a tyre skid. It's a traction situation, not an ABS situation.
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline Tim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 38
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2014, 22:32:16 »
Quote from: "greywolf"
If the ABS activates, there was a tyre skid. It's a traction situation, not an ABS situation.

If the ABS activates, there was a difference in wheel speed. Not necessarily a locked wheel.

Quote from: " Suzuki Motorcycles "
The ABS is a supplemental device for brake operation, not a device for shortening stopping distance

I think this is an admission that the Suzuki system can reduce braking efficiency in certain conditions/scenarios.

I'm sure on a wet/greasy road when you are not concentrating and you "panic brake" it might stop you loosing the front, but under normal hard braking it is a hinderance.

I honestly think the system is overly sensitive, or maybe just simple in comparison to other systems I've experienced. The BMW system really is excellent, in my normal riding I never felt it kick in at all.

Offline Jacko

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5803
  • Bike: DL650 L2
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2014, 22:36:50 »
It can certainly hinder me, and it definitely increases stopping distance for me in certain situations.

Interesting quote, makes sense too, where did you pull it from?

Offline greywolf

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Dec 2011
  • Posts: 5262
  • Location: Evanston IL USA
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2014, 22:37:35 »
Quote from: "Tim"
If the ABS activates, there was a difference in wheel speed. Not necessarily a locked wheel.
That is still a loss of traction if the tyres were moving at different speeds. Different speeds require slippage even if not locked.
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline Tim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 38
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2014, 22:39:40 »
Quote from: "Jacko"
It can certainly hinder me, and it definitely increases stopping distance for me in certain situations.

Interesting quote, makes sense too, where did you pull it from?

The Suzuki websites for America and Canada.

Offline Jacko

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5803
  • Bike: DL650 L2
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2014, 22:53:19 »
Quote from: "greywolf"
Quote from: "Tim"
If the ABS activates, there was a difference in wheel speed. Not necessarily a locked wheel.
That is still a loss of traction if the tyres were moving at different speeds. Different speeds require slippage even if not locked.

What if the rear lifts? It can be going faster than the front, there's no slippage then. Also, starting to chirp is still controllable, but the abs just wades in and releases the braking power, this has happened to me, it's scary because I lose control of the bike by its own volition, so I don't even control when I lose control.

Offline Tim

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2014
  • Posts: 38
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2014, 22:54:05 »
Quote from: "greywolf"
Quote from: "Tim"
If the ABS activates, there was a difference in wheel speed. Not necessarily a locked wheel.
That is still a loss of traction if the tyres were moving at different speeds. Different speeds require slippage even if not locked.

Because of the bikes independent brake circuits front and rear there will always be a difference in wheel speed under braking. Modern ABS systems measure slippage (difference in wheel speed) and predict a wheel locking, they don't wait for the wheel to lock. I think the Suzuki system doesn't allow enough slippage and reduces braking performance.

Offline Jacko

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2012
  • Posts: 5803
  • Bike: DL650 L2
ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2014, 23:09:25 »
Sportsbike abs is a lot more refined and less intrusive. It allows a certain amount of difference, the bit you get when braking hard, and doesn't chime in. The Glees system isn't as clever, it's a basic set up that cannot differentiate between useful hard braking and potentially dangerous lock ups.

There's a reason that front wheel locking is used during machine control tuition, it's a good way to condition yourself to the feel of a wheel locking, learning not to fear it and knowing that the most efficient braking is at the point just before the wheel locks. At this point the last thing you want is some basic abs system cutting in and robbing you of it. It renders all that tuition and experience useless.

Offline Juvecu

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: May 2009
  • Posts: 13454
  • Eat, Sleep, Ride, Repeat
  • Bike: '11 Versys 650 & '05 TT-R250
  • Location: Ryton-On-Dunsmore
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2014, 13:35:53 »
It's been mentioned before, but I think it has a lot to do with the tyres on a bike. If you have tyres that are prone to "letting go" then you're going to have the ABS kicking in sooner than you'd like. Fit tyres that don't let go at the top of your braking comfort level and you should never have ABS kicking in. It's quite normal that people don't have a clue how bad some tyres are until they've ridden the same bike on a better tyres.
Members Map                                                    Juv's Strom "Restoration" (sold to Mad Phil)
Juv & Locky's Morocco Trip Report                   Juv's Blog

Offline bosnjo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Aug 2013
  • Posts: 1041
  • Bike: DL1000 L7
  • Location: Portugal
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2014, 17:53:10 »
That is true. I now have Michelin Pilot Road 4 front and back and ABS would kick in only if I fully squeeze both brakes.
DL1000 2017 white
DL1000 2014 red (sold)
DL650 2012 white (sold)

Offline Pembo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Nov 2013
  • Posts: 17
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2014, 21:43:03 »
Hi I have owned 3 BMW,s and the ABS brakes are no different to the V stroms, my BMW r1200st  would let the brakes off frequently going into roundabouts on the original tyres, I have not had this happen yet with the v strom but I have had the tyres let loose in the wet they are good in the dry though.
Change the tyres!

Offline bosnjo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Aug 2013
  • Posts: 1041
  • Bike: DL1000 L7
  • Location: Portugal
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2014, 08:42:36 »
+1 on changing tyres.
If you ride only tarmac (as I do) OEM tyres are not the way to go. Choose proper tyres for tarmac. That is why I went Michelin PR4.
DL1000 2017 white
DL1000 2014 red (sold)
DL650 2012 white (sold)

Offline SimonW

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Sep 2010
  • Posts: 1920
  • Bike: DL1050XT
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2014, 08:49:42 »
My OEM tyres have squared off a bit after 3,500 miles, which seems a bit soon to me.

Offline ziggy

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 430
  • Bike: DL1000 L4, Vespa 300 GTV
  • Location: Rothley
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2014, 11:11:25 »
Simon my rear lasted 8,000 miles and the front is still on at 14.500 although I have one ready to fit.

 :)
Do it today as there may not be a tomorrow.

Live in Rothley, Leicestershire.

Offline frez

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2011
  • Posts: 2316
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2014, 11:28:08 »
Mileage will depend on types of road surface you ride on and how aggressive you are with the throttle/brake. There are huge differences between what some get on stock tyres on the Super Tenere and what others get, by a factor of 2 or 3 times.
Now on a Super Tenere having put 64k miles on a 2011 DL650

Offline UK_Vstrom650

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Jun 2012
  • Posts: 6716
  • Bike: DL650A L2
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2014, 20:05:18 »
Just read in last month's Ride that their OEM tyres squared off at around 4,500 miles & their replacement Anakee IIIs are about the same.

Offline Brockett

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 8711
  • Bike: 2022 Moto Guzzi 850 V7 special in blue, 2022 850 V7 Stone in darkest black, 1998 XJ600n in red. 2021 Royal Enfield 500 Classic stealth.
  • Location: Tendring in the Far North East (of Essex)
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2014, 09:17:34 »
IMHO and without getting in any way technical.
ABS cuts in when adhesion is reduced and if it is obtrusive I would
1 - recheck tyre pressures
2 - change the tyres
3 - brake earlier

General advice for anyone buying a Strom with OEM tyres, is to factor in the cost of replacement tyres from the word go.
This doesn't last forever, so do it while you can.

Offline Oop North John

  • Member
  • ***
  • Joined: Aug 2011
  • Posts: 1739
  • Bike: DL650 M0, YB100 - 1990
  • Location: The Frozen North East
Re: ABS kicking in too early
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2014, 09:58:37 »
Quote from: "Brockett"
ABS cuts in when adhesion is reduced and if it is obtrusive I would

When the sensors detect a potential lock up and release / reduce the brake pressure based on the algorithms the ABS manufacturer / bike manufacturer have used.