new strom cuts out/backfires/stalls on pull away

[Brockett]

After being loaned a Veek for a day while my Glee was in for a service I was considering an upgrade to the Veek next spring but reading through these posts has put me off.

I cannot agree with the view of another contributor that just because it stutters and cuts out and the dealer can't fix it I should give it the benefit of the doubt ( it might be a one off rogue) and invest £10,000.
That kind of fault will require a change of riding/control. My old brain needs to be focused on the important stuff  like staying safe and not getting lost and not being distracted by worrying about the engine cutting out.

Would we be happy with a new TV if it cut out two or three times a night.

No, we'd take it straight back.

I'll not be buying a Veek.

[frez]

I couldn't rely on a bike that had this fault. I use my bike for commuting, and having it cut out after filtering to the front of a traffic queue would be too dangerous.

[Firestorm]

Suzuki themselves MUST deal with this problem. There are too many owners having the same or very similar problems. If its a PDI/initial set up problem the Suzuki need to address the problem with uprated training for Dealers Technicians. If its a random manufacturing fault Suzuki need to address this with their suppliers. Popular as this Forum is there must be a significant number of owners who are not members and are battling alone. I'm on the list of someone who'd like one but won't commit until it is sorted for existing owners and Suzuki come clean with what the issue is/was for prospective customers to have confidence. As Alan29 said - Customers should not pay top dollar to be Beta testers. I'm sure one of the Owners at least has forwarded this thread to Suzuki Customer services. They (Suzuki) are a member of this Forum but have been really quiet since March. People power got the service intervals extended - perhaps if everyone whos Vee has so much as even farted forwarded this thread it would at least get a response.
The one I rode was brilliant - no issues at all. The one that went to Japan (now that's a real test ride) - no issues. Is that because they were set up properly from the outset or blind luck?
Come on Suzuki - if you are reading this, get it sorted. Tell everyone what the problem is/was when you've fixed it, look after the Beta testers PROPERLY and sell more Bikes!

[bosnjo]

I have one little information that can be understood as something finally going on regarding this problem and few others.
I have really good relationship with my dealer, I mean the owner of the shop. He is Suzuki dealer and at the same time he races in motocross and takes care of mechanical issues of some racing (track racing) motorcycles. He owns Dyno himself and has great knowledge of motorcycle engines. He is not big dealer but he has sold 8 new Vee's since August this year. Mine was the second.
Now, he informed me that he was scheduled to get full specific training on new model DL1000, by the end of December 2014 (this month) and bring new maintenance software to his shop at the same time. Just few days ago, he was informed that the training was posponed until the end of February 2015 because there are some serious upgrades and changes on new model, and they are not ready yet. The idea is to get dealers trained to introduce those changes and upgrades after the training. Now, he really doesn't know what changes and upgrades are those and the only thing we can do, is to wait.
I was the first one to install Arrow exhaust. Few days later, and after my bike was seen at the front of the dealer's shop, he sold two more bikes and both clients wanted exhaust like mine. The dealer, just out of fun, decided to put one of those bikes on Dyno before and after exhaust swap, to see if there was any significant change. What he told me was the piece of information that confirms our suspicions. After exhaust change, the bike "breathes" a bit better, but nothing significant, but the important thing was, he said, the bike has soooooo poor mixture on low throttle opening and he will not rest untill he gets green light from main Suzuki importer to play with it a bit.
My bike has 3.000 km's on the clock. It has never had "idle hammer". It did have very jerky throttle on low throttle opening and "on/off" effect, but that cured 90% by itself and it's very smooth now. From time to time, it did stall during manouvering and on very few ocasions I almost went down as the bike was leaning (getting out of my garage on sharp right turn on steep rump uphill). Since cold days arrived, it has never missed a beat, even when I really tried to stall it by blipping the throttle. To me, it has been proven that colder air (more dense air) helps on the issue.
Am I right if I say that with more dense air (cold air) ECU makes richer mixture to match it?
So, let's hope by the end of February we get some news.

[wunwinglow]

Well, I picked mine up in the middle of this February (the day after I got the all-clear from the specialist checking my collar bone and shoulder!) so that will be a year exactly for me!

I wonder if I'll get any recognition as a Beta-tester?   I wonder indeed.....

Tim

[wunwinglow]

Would anyone be interested in seeing my dyno graphs, pre- and post Hilltop working their magic?

If so, I'll scan and upload them.

Tim

[Jacko]

I'm shocked at people who based on a few people having problems with their bike, won't buy one  

Following that logic, a few people have accidents whilst on the road, best not ride on the road  

Even the vee, wee and glee have had problems ....

Why? Potential problems put folk off. There are many other bikes to consider, your road/accident analogy does work because there aren't hundreds of other road networks to use if you don't want to use the one that's crashed on frequently.

[CandyFloss]

Here I go again. Just as I thought everything was going tickety boo with the bike since the earth lead replacement, yesterday it began with the dreaded revs drop and coughing and farting yet again. All rather embarrassing as it coughed and barked as I pulled up outside my local bike meet. Witnessing it my mates commented on it with some disbelief as they knew my history with the bike. So all is not well again I'm afraid and looks like another visit to the Dealer.
When I popped into the Dealership a Few days before to report how pleased I was with the bikes performance it was funny that when I was talking to one of the Staff he asked me if I was considering changing the exhaust?
I said that I wasn't at present but he replied that I'd find it may "Free up the engine". So Bosnjo you may have hit on something.
This is all such a shame because like everyone else who has reported problems think that it is such an excellent bike. Can't get my head around that some have no issues at all with theirs. We few are just unlucky. CF

[MartinW]

With some bikes having a problem and some not, I cannot see how the exhaust could be the problem. That sounds like an everyone has it or no-one has it option to me.
 

[mr_diver]

It all still sounds to me like an overly lean mixture in the low gear/low rev range to make the eurocrats happy then an out of sync TPS.
As I stated early in this thread that my 650 did this when I ajustes the TPS badly and cocked up the mixture.

[tallpaul]

I wonder if a TRE would cure this, or is the ecu entirely different?

[Firestorm]

That's a very good point Tallpaul.

[TLPower]

The TRE only alters the ignition timing not the air fuel / ratio. Though altering the traction control settings does seem to help some, traction control usually works by retarding the ignition...

The original TL1000 (1st use of the Suzuki V twin) suffered from the same maladies. Early fixes included an earth lead per cylinder head and additional earth leads from the coil mounts. Earth leads ran back to the battery.

They also made 120+ bhp.

[Jacko]

Has anyone considered the valve on the exhaust, and the actuation unit? Disabling it temporarily could provide insight.

[alan29]

This doesn't seem to be such an issue in the USA, judging by the lack of mentions on Stromtroopers.
I wonder why.

[sharealike]

New year resolution for me then.

Slacken off the throttle cable

Check the throttle body sleeves are tightly on

Change the spark plugs

If I have one more cut out, then return the bike to dealer

Contact consumer rights professional

Fingers crossed points 1-3 do the job. If not then points 3-4 will be carried out.

Cheers everyone. I will update with progress

There comes a time when faulty products have to go back. I sympathise with dealers who have to support such products but they know the score. Get the bike back to them and leave a letter stating you reject the bike before six months is up. Templates on citizens advice website. Include earlier attempts they made to fix it with dates. Before six months its up to them to prove the fault was not there when they supplied it. After six months its up to you to prove it was there when new which is very hard to do. With that letter and bike returned their only way out is give you your money back. They might try to turn to their advantage and trade you another bike but be certain you get what you paid back in real terms. Be prepared for them to argue that you had some use and bike has wear and tear. Your response is that much of that has been in riding back and forward to them and road testing their claimed fixs which have not worked.
Make an appointment by telephone with the owner or one of the partners and take a witness with you. If they don't show up then make another appointment and add to your letter that they missed the appointment and put the reason why. Doing this in winter when you need less use of the bike is the best time. Takes some guts but the only way to force their hand into paying up. With luck a wise dealer will be armed with your bikes value and have offers in his mind and meet you in his office. Explore the offers and don't be rushed. Go prepared with what you want. You have the upper hand for just once when negotiating with a dealer.

[wunwinglow]

Thanks for the advice, but I don't want to take my bike back. I picked the bike I picked because in all other respects, it suits me and my requirements perfectly!! I just want it to run properly!! I don't think that is too much to ask!! Heck, I was one of the first purchasers, so I paid full wack for it (Oi! Stop that sniggering at the back....) and after all the pre-launch advertising puff about how much effort went into the bikes development, I am frankly amazed that this was EVER an issue!! Jeez, if one of their testers made 30 recommendations about the rev display alone (I might have this slightly wrong, but you get the jist)  I can't believe really crappy low rev throttle control would have missed their attention.....

Here is a Dyno plot of my bike as it was tested in July, after Frasers had adjusted, then unadjusted the TPS, but BEFORE any adjustments were made to the ECU.



The upper graph shows power and torque, with revs along the bottom. The lower graph is the Air/Fuel ratio, in otherwords leanness, with the higher the graph, the leaner the mix. As you can see, this is utterly off the scale, so dreadfully lean until the engine is almost at 4000 revs.

Here is a plot of the engine AFTER the remap, with the red and brown lines showing the power and torque profiles, compared with the original ones, in blue. Quite a difference, I think you will agree. This is why both Odbod and I have commented, the remap makes a MASSIVE improvment in the smoothness and controlability of OUR bikes, compared with how they were before the remap. I have no idea if newer bikes have had their stock maps improved by Suzuki, but my bike was quite a handful throughout its rev range before the remap.



I am chuffed to bits with the bike OVERALL. I do NOT want to swap it for a different bike, I want my bike to work over its entire rev range, and this is where the problem lays. Below 2700 revs, (and yes, I know that is where V twins can struggle a bit.....) the revs are still vague, unstable, seem to bear little relationship to the throttle position, still will drop, instantly, to idle, and are difficult to pick up again so matching revs to selected gear is messy. It seems to drop to nothing when neutral is selected, for example.

Now, if this is some clever, 'helpful' device, I'd like it switched off please. I'm skilled enough, and mature enough, to decide for myself what revs I want. Call me an old fuddy duddy if you like, but I think the throttle should be in  control of the revs, not have something else cutting in without my say-so.  Don't patronise me, in other words... And yes, I know the ABS and Traction Control do this, but I understand how and when they work, and why.

If it is some actual fault, a sticky TPS, a weak return spring, a dirty jet, a leaky air pipe, whatever, I want it fixed.

I'll be at the Bristol BAM Super Sunday meeting tomorrow, if anyone wants to try the bike! I really would appreciate some second opinions....

Tim

[MartinW]

+1    That's a passionate response Tim. It's your bike and you want it fixed  

Listen up to the bad press Mr Suzuki and go fix it.

[sharealike]

I'm not aiming this at any particular owner. To add a little more on all persons rights under the consumer law when something is clearly wrong with one new product and not others. Its crucial that you decide what you wish to do within the first six months of ownership. You in fact have the luxury of three options. Return for a refund. Return for an exchange of another like for like. And the third (which the dealer wants) is you keep returning it for them to try and fix it because this takes you past the magic six months.

The letter of rejection route lets you have your money back to spend on a replacement. It also lets you have them exchange it for another new one. If you paid full whack the dealer can source a new one now for a good deal less. Proof being that eBay is full of them at Suzuki dealerships. Better still you can have close to your full whack back from the original dealer and go buy from somewhere else with something in your pocket for your trouble. See how in the first six months the boot is firmly on your foot to get them to take you seriously. And so it should be when £10k's worth of Suzuki is causing such grief.

Bear in mind they might never get some of these bikes to run properly through official Suzuki channels. Emissions law probably says they can't legally tinker with the fuelling outside the standard approved mapping.

[greywolf]

This doesn't seem to be such an issue in the USA, judging by the lack of mentions on Stromtroopers.
I wonder why.

I'm thinking the Euro emissions laws are stricter than the EPA regulations.