Service interval chat.

[Jacko]

While at B&B Motorcycles in Lincoln today I asked a Suzuki GB bloke about the new 1000s interval, mentioning that the original handbook has the usual 3,500 but an addition to the manual states the new 7,500 interval. What he said was quite interesting, he said the 'Vstrom owners club' had reps at the launch, and they wanted to know if the intervals were going to align with the competition, so Suzuki looked at it again.

He then added that the 3,500 intervals were never about oil, he said they were to check cycle parts, chain adjustment etc. brakes, running gear. He average owner, he said, cannot look after a bike for toffee, so to keep them in good running order they needed to see them every 3,500 miles, the oil change is incidental. This is why the new 1000 can go to 7,500, because they put the miles on the bikes and found that they can go 7,500 miles without the checks and adjustments earlier bikes needed.

He also said don't waste your money on changing the oil filters every time you change the oil, as long as they're genuine filters you can leave them on for 2 oil changes.

Make of all of that what you will, the message was quite clear to me.

[UK_Vstrom650]

So basically they just pluck a figure out of the air for 3,500 intervals  

Seems whilst the competition have been updating theirs we caught Suzuki snoozing

[MartinW]

Dear Mr Suzuki.

Please refund me for the 6 oil changes I have paid for, that I didn't need.

Many Thanks.

[Jacko]

He also mentioned something that I had considered and did mention on here during a discussion about the bikes service interval, namely that if they increased this bikes interval then every new model from here on would have to have a similar interval or awkward, and justifiable, questions would be asked.

[UK_Vstrom650]

So Mr. Suzuki will write to us and say you can increase your service intervals on your Glee to 7,500 miles?

[Jacko]

Don't hold your breath.

[UK_Vstrom650]

Maybe we should all ask Suzuki customer services?

[SimonW]

Who was it from Suzuki - Martyn?

[ziggy]

I along with Andy were at the launch and I know that Andy did represent V Strom owners over several concerns especially service intervals. What I will say is be thankful that the service intervals are now 7,500 miles. Other manufactuers increased their service intervals and maybe did not announce the changes in the way Suzuki have done. But if what Andy said at the launch made Suzuki GB feed back to Japan and they made the changes I would say well done Andy.

I also agree that this will/should have implications on other models in the range as nothing is that different between each model.

I say one thing more. Thank you Suzuki.

 

[Jacko]

I didn't get his name, bloke in his mid-late 40s maybe, smoker, really nice bloke, forthcoming with real info, didn't shy away from probing questions.

He also added this 'be careful what you wish for'. The Explorer may have 10 and 20k intervals but they're £550 and £650 respectively, with a voided warranty if serviced outside the network. A Suzuki serviced at 3,500 intervals won't have cost anywhere near £1200 at 20,000 miles, good point.

[MartinW]

But what would a Suzuki have cost by 29,999 miles ?

[Andy M]

So basically they just pluck a figure out of the air for 3,500 intervals  

Seems whilst the competition have been updating theirs we caught Suzuki snoozing

They ask the engineers, look at what the competition is offering, talk to the service blokes then make a COMMERCIAL decision. This interval is not an oil thread type discussion for mechanical pedants alone. It is the same thinking that leads to a mobile service giving you the handset but charging a bigger margin for the calls. It is how our world works not some personally targeted rip off. This change as we can see does highlight their profit structure and annoy existing customers. The Korean car manufactures started it as a way to break the brands. BMW and Harley lead the way on bikes although I always suspected that was out of control techies leading the way rather than deliberate commercial thinking.

 Selling no bikes because everyone wants 10k intervals equals no income. Income every 3500 to inspect your air filter was a nice little earner so long as you were all afraid of losing the warranty and the competition did the same.

The warranty BTW is the same decision. My expectation is longer warranties that will let people clock up a few more £500 trips to the dealer, but a much more Bavarian stance on claims. They will make things harder to do at home (also a double edged weapon as special parts increase manufacturing costs and hence first bite price or margin too) and push harder on longer visits to get you shopping (expect restrictions on loan bikes so you hang about in the dealers, free coffee instead etc.).

If (as I do) we walk away from the warranty, we should expect dealers to close.

Suzuki are not a charity, if they don't do this profit maximisation their accountants are shareholders will want them out of the industry. We need to drive them down the middle road where they stay but don't set up boutiques.

Andy

[mr_diver]

But what would a Suzuki have cost by 29,999 miles ?

What about 51k???
Mr Suzuki Can I have a refund on half the 16 services completed on my bike, you know, the ones that were to check your assembly blokes did their job right?  

Oh wait... I do all my own servicing...

to be honest I don't mind changing oil and filter every 3.5k miles. I always knew it was marketing bollocks, but I don't use dealers so it doesn't concern me as to cost. I use Halfords oil at trade prices, and champion or hiflo filters @£4 a time. I change filters every time as then I don't have to remember if I changed it last time.

my Dad's Deauville takes the same amount of oil, for the same size engine and goes 8k miles before it need changing, and the engine design is 15 years older than the SV650 engine and still 10 years older than the TL1000- Read into that what you want.

I'm not going to be extending the Service Interval, unless Suzuki send out a service bulletin stating old model changes but pigs will take to the sky's before that happens  

If I was planing a long tour that took me out of the 3.5 service interval I'd service it before going then service it when I got back. But I wouldn't go much over 5k miles as I know I'm running fairly basic Semi Synth oil. But then again if I was planning that sort of tour, the choice of semi or fully synth would be the least of my worries- Fully synth and not worry about the Mileage.  

As for:

He average owner, he said, cannot look after a bike for toffee

The only time a bolt has been loose Is when I forgot to tighten it  
Suzuki use a copious amount of thread locker on everything.

[Andy M]

Can't go for my ride until the wife gets back so lets try some numbers plucked out of thin air:

I will ride the Wee something like 12000 miles and then sell it at 30-36 months old. So:

I buy the bike for £6000 and get £2000 trade in when I sell. Depreciation is £4000 and the single biggest cost.
I refused to pay for the 600 mile service and the dealer admitted it was discussed on the deal, they should hide the cost and avoid arguments.
I've dropped the oil every 5000 miles, spending £50 a go for the two small oil changes (branded plus K&N filters) and £100 when I bought an air filter and some plugs.

This bike has cost me 36p a mile in stuff the dealer has control over. Petrol and tyres are excluded.

If I had a service record the trade in might hit £2500.
To keep the dealer on side I'd have paid £60 for oil at 600 miles, £250 for the 3500 and 10500 and £400 for the 7000.

This is 37p a mile.

The cash difference is basically naff all. A 10000 service interval to the big service would make it 33p a mile with a pro-rata drop for DIY.

Factors are though:

1. If the trade in hits £1000 difference for having a service history that deal wipes the board. My fully photographed service record might get such a bite on e-bay while a dealers value will depend how close the sales bloke is to hitting his monthly target. I will get a trade in deal from my chosen dealer and the bike will go on e-bay at a higher value to see.

2. If my engine had blown up before last May I could have been looking at flogging a dead bike in bits on e-bay for £500 and hitting a quid a mile. The bloke who'd bought one big and one small service would be still on 30-something pence unless Suzuki got Bavarian.

3. I have had no pain in terms of days off work to deal with shop opening hours, apprentice grease monkeys forgetting to put stuff back, the use of failed teleporter experiments to change spark plugs etc. If faultless running is down to me or Suzuki no one will ever know.

4. Appleyards have lost three opportunities to sell me a new set of waterproofs. They should have had me profiled at 7500 miles and out on an SR400 at 10500 to try and secure the next three years business. They aren't capable of this, they'd have loaned me a SV650 which would have only confirmed my thoughts on sportsbikes (ie pointless). If they didn't loan me a bike I'd have walked to three other dealers for a look, very bad business.

If they were clever they'd set up the deal to swap the bike at 34 months after no service work for the average rider. They currently only do this on their insane rental/HP deals but I think that might come too.

Those of you who do higher miles save more on home servicing. Those not in the market for a new bike every few years are smaller targets so have to be made worth the effort.  

Andy

[kwackboy]

I've worked as a mechanic now for nearly 10 years in a private repair shop in london and I'm seeing more and more newer/younger bikes come into my shop. Owners of new bikes often say to me that they are worried about service costs by the big dealers and often feel very ripped off.  

Warranties are one of those benefits that alot of people look for but very often never use but are suckered back to the dealers for servicing in order to keep there warranties. I've known mechanics in major dealers to cut corners because they have to put in a certain amount of labour hours per day and I know from personal experience that alot of the work that is supposedly needed and charged for is never done.  

Alot of owners come to us and often quote service book advice and some of it I agree with but most of it I don't. We often give advice on general maintenance to owners when they pick there bikes up in order to help them save money, most bikes will last alot longer with that little more care and attention.
Most bikes and owners these days are happy with an oil change and general check over and renew consumables if needed.

For anyone out there who doesn't know that spark plugs can last over 10000 miles and iridium plugs can do double that and more so try to remember that when your next service is up , it could save you money and If you change your air filter to a re-cleanable one this will also save you money

Valve clearances are needed when a new bike is run in fully and in most cases will never need adjustment again. I've lost count on how many valve clearnace jobs I've done in the past but I can say that its rare if one needs adjustment. Not long ago I checked a CB500 with nearly 100k , yes 100k ...  and all of the valves were within tolernace and last week an SV650 with 24k on the clock, same again, easily within tolerance.

I'm not just saying this because I work in a small shop but its the reputable back street repair shops that will often give you better and more honest advice/servicing than the bigger money hungry dealers who are nice before they have your money but after couldn't give a crap about you.  

Save money people....

[cearnshaw]

interesting stuff. I'm, running a Versys1000 now (2 yrs, from a Wee) but still check in on here every now and again. The big Vee1K service book recommends Valves at 26,500 miles and a 7.5K servce interval (and a brake pad check at  every 3.5K which sort of confirms the idea that they don't think anyone checks consumables)

[UK_Vstrom650]

Just reading Bike's Honda CB500X review on a train, services 600 miles/12 months (WTF 600 in 12??) £99, 8,000 miles/24 months = £150, 16,000 miles/36 months £360 (in valve clearance check). My 7,500 Glee was £220...

Am not impressed with the 'be careful what you wish for' connotation that longer service intervals = higher service charges  

[mr_diver]

last dealer service I had done cost me £11.59  

one litre of oil and a side light bulb and 20 mins labour for my Yam 125

Dealers are robbing gits and I'd always recommend you avoid them at all costs

[Stuart]

Very interesting stuff...and I really appreciate the advice from a genuine, independent mechanic. Like mine, very experienced, very capable, and very interested in his customers. What I can't get my head round is the service intervals in miles OR months.  My 650X has 3,300 miles on a 10 Plate...I've just had the 3,500 miles service (by my independent) & MOT.  Book stamped & realised it's had an oil & filter change on average every 815 miles.  Maybe overkill, but I suppose (for the cost) it'll ensure there's minimal wear on the engine, stamps in the book look good, and will reflect on me as an owner come the time I sell it.  Anyway, regarding the new Honda CB500 range.  Indeed, the 600 miles service & valve check was £600.  However, Honda now state this no longer applies (apparently they've seen the valves don't require adjustment).  So, from the many owners who had to stump up till very recently, the new/pending owners are off the hook.  Hmmm! Maybe it's more to do with prospective buyers being put off, than any mechanical issue of the valves not needing adjustment/inspection.  Oh, and on the CB Forums, I've read some dealers simply "listened" to the valves & didn't physically "inspect" them...for £600!!!

[Jacko]

£600? That's dearer than the vfr1200 valve check, are you sure that's the correct figure?

I think a large percentage of valve checks go undone, but still end up on the bill. Thinking about it over the years I've come to the conclusion that they play the numbers game, the money they make on charging for valve work not done is far more than it'll cost them to rectify any extremely rare valve burnouts. I've never heard of anyone having an engine ruined because of neglected clearance checks.