Author Topic: Performance Tuning  (Read 8088 times)

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Offline William

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2013, 13:41:50 »
Had my vee re mapped at Hilltop Motorcycles, Leicester. Web Address http://www.hilltopmotorcycles.co.uk.  Prior to remapping fitted new plugs and air filter, balanced throttle bodies, checked valve clearances.  BHP and torque up by about 20% bike much more flexible, able to engage higher gear at lower revs making for a much more relaxed ride.  Lots of GS Panzer owners have had this done.  Check out UK gser.  Cost £360 which seams a lot but as it transformed the bike it was well worth it.  For full road test report click on their facebook page via their website home page.

Hope this helps.

Offline TLPower

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2013, 18:25:51 »
To be happy, I don't need private helicopters,a Florida house or a yacht. I'm fine with my motorcycle,a trip to a forest in Bavaria and some lunch money.

Walter Rohrl.

Offline Juvecu

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2013, 18:37:12 »
20% increase in BHP and torque is quite a claim for the work that was done, William. It must have run like a dog before? :shrug:
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Offline 2112

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2013, 19:13:05 »

That's just cheating  <!-- s:neen: -->:neen:<!-- s:neen: -->
It's pronounced 'twenty-one-twelve'

Offline TLPower

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2013, 20:07:27 »
That's just cheating  :neen:

Yup probably.

The entire bike is for sale in bits.

The real answer to the tuning issue of course is to buy a Vee. (Or for the true connoisseur, a Cagiva Navigator).
To be happy, I don't need private helicopters,a Florida house or a yacht. I'm fine with my motorcycle,a trip to a forest in Bavaria and some lunch money.

Walter Rohrl.

Offline 2112

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2013, 20:46:44 »

I nearly bought a Navigator a few year back that was for sale at M & S Motorcycles in the toon. By chance while I was looking at it I got speaking to the previous owner who had part-exed it for a Varadero. The tales of electrical woes put me off Cagiva's for life ! This thing was barely able to cover 500 miles between breakdowns and was on it's third ECU by 11,000 miles, eek. Looked lovely mind.
It's pronounced 'twenty-one-twelve'

Offline William

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 19:55:46 »
Quote from: "Juvecu"
20% increase in BHP and torque is quite a claim for the work that was done, William. It must have run like a dog before? :shrug:

Actually not so, it ran within its design parameters, no better or worse than most modern mass produced machines.  However, those parameters, this retired test and development engineer found unacceptable.  

To get back to Descoladas original post "Is there any such thing as performance tuning on a wee (AK9). Can the engine be tweaked to provide more power - without workshop performance testing tools/diagnostic how would you know that your wee is performing at its optimal efficiency?"

First some basic notes on engine/performance tuning; there are three areas that affect power output:
1.  Internal modifications such as bore size, cam profile and valve size, etc.  
2.  External modifications such as exhaust size, end can design and inlet filtration methods, etc.
3.  And this is the critical bit, the harmonization of all the various parts to deliver the optimum power and torque at any given revolution.

Back in the days of non ECU controlled power delivery there existed many talented men capable of such tasks who could extract that little extra that gave top racers that crucial edge.  Men such as Tom Arter, Joe Craig, Francis Beart, etc became legendary names in engine tuning.  These men could determine the optimum fuelling and ignition settings allied to spark plug readings to deliver the ultimate performance tuning.

With the advent of the ECU controlled motorcycle power units a new generation of tuner has emerged, however the principles remain the same I.e. number 3 of my basic notes.  

So back to the principles of performance tuning;  initially all original manufacturers specifications should be established (I.e. standard exhaust, spark plugs, air filter, valve clearances, etc.)  then onto the dyno to check BHP and torque output at any given engine revolution.  The modern tuner can then re-set the parameters of power delivery to suit a given riders requirements within the tolerances of average climate conditions and altitude variations.  In many cases the average power increase on a variety of different make machines has been found to be approximately 20%.  As a note, back in the days of carburettor equipped machines I often found that fitting slightly larger carbs to a machine even without gas flowing cylinder heads would when dyno tested increase power output by a similar 20%.

So to sum up, on modern ECU controlled machines remapping will give the maximum performance gain for the given financial outlay and that can be proven by the dyno read-out, any after-market bolt-on I.e. exhaust end can, air filter, etc, effectiveness can only be proven on a dyno test.

Not trying to be clever with this post but merely trying to answer the original post clearly and concisely.

Offline TLPower

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2013, 18:31:18 »
Quote
Not trying to be clever with this post but merely trying to answer the original post clearly and concisely.
William

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Top reply.

To return to the OP's question there will be ways of increasing the output.

From a personal point, I have made my bike more efficient by altering the air box, fitting a high flow air filter, replacing the restrictive and poorly designed exhaust system with a free flowing one.

I altered the mapping by fitting a timing retard eliminator and fitting a power commander to fine tune the fueling. I also installed a switchable resistor into the engine temp circuit to remove the cold start map of the ecu earlier.

I have had the bike set up on a dyno to map the power commander.

The results over the standard settings are stunning. Real world riding between 2500 and 7500 rpm give astonishing acceleration and flexibility. From 7500 onwards it's just rude.
To be happy, I don't need private helicopters,a Florida house or a yacht. I'm fine with my motorcycle,a trip to a forest in Bavaria and some lunch money.

Walter Rohrl.

Offline Juvecu

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2013, 20:38:33 »
As far as I understand the TRE fools the ECU into thinking the bike is in the same gear all the time (4th was it?) so that the lower gears aren't restricted. Couldn't you do that with the Power Commander anyway?
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Offline TLPower

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2013, 21:26:38 »
The power commander only sorts the fueling side of the process. (Mine is a PC2)

The Cagiva inherited the poor fueling from the TL 1000 due to Suzuki's rush to get the bike to market.
Cagiva remapped the Suzuki ECU to suit the adventure bike but didn't map it very well.

The original TL 1000's made the same BHP as the later phase 2 and phase 3 ECU equipped bikes but in a less dramatic fashion.
To be happy, I don't need private helicopters,a Florida house or a yacht. I'm fine with my motorcycle,a trip to a forest in Bavaria and some lunch money.

Walter Rohrl.

Offline EireSkull

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2014, 22:17:29 »
I'm not sure if this is the right place to be asking this, but need some help.

I've just fitted a TRE (Cheap one from the net) to my Vee k6 and it feels so much smoother to drive in lower gears, But when its fitted the F1 light constantly flashes on and off and the red light in the middle always on and when I put it in gear the O/D light comes on?
Anyone any ideas?

Offline hookie

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2014, 09:38:03 »
The TRE shouldn't cause this. What it will do is stop the OD appearing when the bike is in top gear. I suggest you remove the TRE and see if the F1 displays again. If it doesn't it would indicate a problem with the TRE. If is still comes on then you have a fault elsewhere which will need decoding and investigating.

Offline 2112

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2014, 12:04:24 »
For some big horsepower how about a bit of this -

http://www.faliconcranks.com/index.html

750cc V-strom anyone ?
It's pronounced 'twenty-one-twelve'

Offline EireSkull

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2014, 21:37:09 »
Quote from: "hookie"
The TRE shouldn't cause this. What it will do is stop the OD appearing when the bike is in top gear. I suggest you remove the TRE and see if the F1 displays again. If it doesn't it would indicate a problem with the TRE. If is still comes on then you have a fault elsewhere which will need decoding and investigating.


I removed the Tre and I have no lights flashing everything is OK :) ,so it must be the tre itself,(unless I am connecting it wrong)
I'm going to return it and order Ivan's Tre,
Before I order one Is this the right connection I was using in the picture?
and where is the best place to order Ivan's Tre?



Offline hookie

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2014, 14:57:09 »
Looks like the right (and only) place it can be fitted. Am not familiar with Ivan's TRE. Mine was a cheapie off Ebay (£12?) and has never been a problem. Suggest you have a rummage around on the web.

Offline EireSkull

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2014, 12:43:03 »
I sent the other one back.
My mate got one called Ivans tre but its expensive he paid £70.00 plus delivery so I ordered one of these from Ebay £27.50 plus postage,can use it on a 30 day trial,hopefully it works.  
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TRE-GSX1400-T ... 2a046f20cf   :text-link:

Thanks hookie for the help!

Offline Abercol

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2014, 11:11:40 »
You could always remove the secondary throttle plates - the same effect as fitting a Tre without paying for it...I did it to mine 15,000 miles ago and haven't had any problems at all.

The Tre fools the bike into thinking its in 4th gear, so it doesn't restrict the bike by partially closing the throttle plates like it does in 1,2,3,5 & 6th.

Removing the plates means it thinks its restricting the bike, but of course, the plates are not there to be closed. The only difference is the bike will run slightly leaner at speeds over that of the restricted bike, so prolonged high speed running (over 120mph) might cause issues...

Offline EireSkull

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2014, 21:47:16 »

I will see if the tre I ordered works if not I might try that,I have no idea what throttle plates are sorry  <!-- s:text-imnewhere: -->:text-imnewhere:<!-- s:text-imnewhere: -->
As for prolonged speed over 120mph that won't be happening not on a vstrom,doesn't feel like its made for that speed not in my experience anyway,
Thanks man.

Offline Abercol

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2014, 11:17:06 »
The secondary throttle plates are accessed via the airbox, so, remove tank, remove top of airbox and filter & one butterfly plate is easily seen in the inlet tract of each cylinder. Simply remove the two screws on each spindle (carefully - you don't want one falling down the inlet into the cylinder) and then remove the thin metal plate with needle nose pliers (or fingers).

Once the air box is open it is all very obvious & you will see exactly what they are and how they are fixed in.

Took less than 2 minutes to do once the airbox was opened up & just as easily reversed, just pop the plates back in if you don't like the result (don't forget to loctite the screws).

Some have said they are loctited in and stiff to remove, but mine came out easily and it was a very simple job while I was in there changing the air filter & lockwiring the rear throttle body onto its cylinder.

Offline TLPower

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Re: Performance Tuning
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2014, 20:35:52 »
By all means remove the secondary butterflies, this will not alter the retarded timing in 1st and 2nd. That is what a Timing Retard Eliminator will do.

A Power Commander and a dyno session will transform the bike.
To be happy, I don't need private helicopters,a Florida house or a yacht. I'm fine with my motorcycle,a trip to a forest in Bavaria and some lunch money.

Walter Rohrl.