Weird Glee review in MCN

[Jacko]

Hehe. Take no notice Matt, just go and do it. Don't buy anything though, they hypnotise you, you must resist.

[geekay]

I'm in Southport on business on Tuesday - I'm going to have a nosey at the BMW dealer there -

must. not. sign. on. the. dotted. line....

[loggamatt]

Haha... it's OK, I realise that expressing positive sentiments towards GS's is a sure fire recipe for being mocked on here. In fact, I've indulged in enough anti-BMW banter myself, so I would expect nothing less.

Also, believe me... no one will be happier than me if I test ride it and discover it's actually a bag of arse! Would far rather save my money if it is all just hype.

Anyway, I won't be signing anything... don't tell the dealer, but I can't really afford to buy it now. Am planning to move out of London within the next couple of years and until I do that, I'll keep the Glee. Just want to see what all the GS hype is about really. Even when I do move, a 2nd hand Trumpet Explorer will be more in my price range, so I'm going to test one of them at some point too.

[SimonW]

Sadly, it isn't a bag of arse. I rest rode the previous (air cooled) model and it was lovely. But not twice as lovely as the new DL was and potentially less reliable.  And I didn't want to one day not be able to ride because the computer had decided that since the heated mirrors had stopped working it wouldn't allow me to start the engine for my own safety (or other such electronic b*ll*x!).

[Gassoon]

I haven't ridden a GS (or any post-1990 BMW) but I am fairly sure it would ride well (can never be sure about individual ergonomics for any rider, though) and in many respects better than the wee. Being a better ride sounds like a good enough reason to have one over a Wee, superficially, but adding up everything - risk of failures (often catastrophic)(not always accepted demurely by BMW, by the way); the huge difference in initial outlay (opportunity-cost: you could be doing something else with that money), and in running costs, the crippling effect upon my sense of self-worth (being seen as a member of a such a 'club'); knowing I was being 'milked' financially, and my ego fed with soft blandishments by the corporate brand and the snobbish attitudes in the salesrooms...............Nahhhh! The price is too high. My motorcycling is about much more than which machine handles better, is fastest, or turns more heads, or is a better status/wealth symbol etc.
For people who do believe in (or do succumb to) those criteria as a guide for their 'progression' through their motorcycling journey, well ...that's their affair!

[Jacko]

Yeah, it's no bag of arse that's for sure, it really is magic carpet stuff, especially the new one. Glide along, effortless cornering, flatters the rider, also it has the ability to warp time, 60mph actually feels like 40. You'll see. I had the copper struggling to keep up, by his own admission, on an FJR1300 when I had my Bikesafe test ride. It wasn't me, I wasn't trying to clear off, it was the bike. I initially thought that the speedo must have been reading KPH.

The trouble is its over-complicated and overpriced, these two things alone keep it off the radar, the 'Ultimate Riding Machine' thing just isn't worth the money or the potential hassle. Plus, and this is important, I got back on my Glee to ride home and it was half the price but no where near half the bike, I smiled to myself as I rode out of town.

[loggamatt]

For people who do believe in (or do succumb to) those criteria as a guide for their 'progression' through their motorcycling journey, well ...that's their affair!

How many years have you been riding though, and how many bikes have you owned? It's easy for an experienced rider to say stick with the bike you've got now forever... but would you have stuck with your first ever bike forever?

I don't think it's unusual for a new rider to want to try a few different bikes is it?

But I don't mean that as a slight on the Glee at all... in fact, I've said more than once in this thread that I think it's quite possible that the Glee is the best all round bike ever made. If I did trade my Glee in for a bigger engined bike (and that's a big if... certainly won't be happening for another year or two) I wouldn't be seeing it as a 'progression' in the sense that I would be moving from an inferior to a superior bike. But I would see it as progressing my experience of motorcycling, different motorcycles, learning how to get the most from different machines etc.

I hear plenty of motorcyclists with 30 years experience say "my first bike was this, then I owned that, and I'll never forget my 3rd bike which I loved, then I owned one I didn't, but then I owned this other one that was pretty good..." which has given them a lifetime of memories of bikes, emotional attachments to some of them, funny stories to tell about the ones that weren't so good etc. etc.

I don't see why I should stick with my 1st bike (well, I consider it my 1st bike, briefly had a Yamaha XJ6 too which was a mistake) forever. Surely that's shutting myself off to lots of other possibilities?

I would say that just because a forum member buys a different bike they're not saying that they think they've moved up in the world, or think the V-Strom is a bad bike... in other words, it's not an insult to the V-Strom or V-Strom owners. It may just mean that they fancy a change and, who knows, may buy another V-Strom again one day.

If I one day sell my Glee, buy a GS and hate the experience, then sell it and buy another Glee again I will regret nothing. Because I will have learnt what it is like to own a GS and will have improved my experience of motorcycling, which is what it's all about. Plus, I'll probably then enjoy owning the Glee all the more for it. I think some of you blokes are forgetting that I'm brand new to motorcycling... I want to learn new things, ride to new places and, yes, ride new bikes... is that so bad?

[Jacko]

There's a brave new world out there for you Matt, test ride before you buy and try as many bikes as you can, how will you truly know what's for you if you don't try all the contenders? Don't forget, I had to be talked into test riding the Vstrom (Glee) before I bought the Tiger 800, just in case it suited me better.

My advice to you is run two bikes, I know, not easy, but by running two bikes you can try new things without walking away from old ones. I'm 'Sportsbike man', yep, that's me, hi. By running two bikes I got to try the Glee long term without letting go of my zx6, trackdays I can still do and terrorise Sunday drivers if I so wish, while at the same time growing up and trying a new and growing genre. I traded a GSX650F for my Glee, a cracking sports tourer, and fast for a porky middleweight, I loved that bike and may well have another one day (I've kept the model specific bits I took off it). In the meantime I'm trying new stuff, you never stop, new world, enjoy.

[loggamatt]

Thanks Jacko! The good thing about all this is, no decision is the end of the world... if I ever get rid of the Glee and regret it, I just buy another Glee. I'm sure I'd lose a little money in the process, but not the end of the world!

I would love to be able to run two bikes... or three... or four  Unfortunately, at the moment that's not affordable, but I'm sure one day I'll have a nice stable of bikes to call my own. In a perfect world I'd keep the Glee as the best all rounder, also get something like a GS, also get a cruiser or retro bike... and possibly something ultra-quick too. Probably more a sports-tourer than a sportsbike though, as I'm probably a bit big for a sportsbike. Maybe a mental naked bike like a Tuono too...

Must start playing the lottery...

[Juvecu]

+1 for buying a 2nd bike when you can later afford it. It's how I ended up getting my DR-Z. You can only ride one at a time and finding that time is often not easy if you're a normal salary slave, like most of us. You don't have to buy new bike, buy 2nd hand ones when a good ones comes up, take care of it and if you don't like it enough to keep it, then sell it on. This way you lose very little in depreciation. Once you find that perfect bike you can consider buying it brand new if that's what you want.

[loggamatt]

The most likely thing that's going to happen is that in 2 years I'll buy a 3 or 4 year old Trumpet Explorer... and will possibly keep the Glee as well or possibly sell it depending on finances/how cheaply I can get a Trumpet.

It's really phenomenally unlikely that I'm going to go out tomorrow and buy a brand new BMW GS... as it would involve me doing a quick detour on the way to a bank to rob it  I just want to test ride the thing chaps... I really wouldn't put a lot of money on me actually buying it if I were you!

If I were a gambling man, I'd bet I will be keeping the Glee for at least another couple of years yet...

And in fact, didn't this thread start off with my incredulity at the Glee losing an MCN group test? How this thread has gone from that to being supposedly "Matt slates Glee, buys GS!" is pretty amusing.

If I ever in my life do buy a GS though, I'm going to put on a bullet proof vest before I post pictures of it on here!!!!  

[stevee_p]

I can fully hear hear where you're coming from Matt, as I'm new to riding too.

I've had the licence for 18 months, and got the Vee as my first bike (nothing like jumping in at the deep end !). But after about a month of Vstrom ownership, I sure enough got the bug to try something new. And that hasn't gone away.

There are LOTS of bikes out there that appeal to me, and I change my mind all the time on what it is I want from a bike.

But I've come to realise that I don't need power, certainly not that of a 1000cc. For me, I'm finding that I'd happily sacrifice power (to a certain extent) for economy, and reliability, not that the Vee was overly thirsty, or unreliable.

But more than any of this, I just like trying new vehicles, either cars or bikes.

When the time comes for me to get a new bike (and I am swaying towards brand new) then I think I'm just going to have to do lots of test rides, because I could read all the reviews in the world on the 'bike of my dreams' only to find its too small for me, or not powerful enough etc.

But I think on any forum you go on, people will be biased. There's nothing wrong with this, it's the nature of forums. And I'm sure the glee is an excellent bike , I really am, it just might not be the one for me (to clarify, it might be too, all depends on what deals are around at the time of purchase).

[Gassoon]

Matt, I've never said you should stick with the DL650. Many of your posts on here involve your heart-searching about what bike to have next, so I'd be on a loser anyway! Nowt wrong with changing bikes at all - it's just the logic you sometimes use to justify getting a GS sounds scarily like 'rationalisation' along the lines we are familiar with from (some) who ride GS's.

I don't rule out ever getting a GS myself, but a number of things would have to change with the marque and the bikes for that to happen

I think that as a newish biker, you're still looking for your 'motorcyclist identity', as much as anything (again not a criticism) and you should keep looking, and analysing...but sometimes there's no 'quick fix', you just have to go through the process and it might take lots of bikes and years. Maybe you'll kind of 'burn-out' and go right off bikes, decide they aren't for you and that's fair enough, too, just the way it is. To me its a strange feeling to read your thoughts during the process, because I didn't analyse much what I was doing when starting out (not that I recall, anyway); there was no forum/fora? of any kind. If I'd talked such stuff at the Pagan Bike Club I wouldn't have lasted long! (at the very least pelted with a storm of beer-mats !). But keep it coming mate, its thought-provoking. And if you do get a GS it's not the end of the world  )

[JRS81]

I'm with Matt on this. My wee is my first big bike and it has served me very well, taken me on one of the best holidays of my life and has been a pleasure to ride since day 1. Despite all of this, I'm fairly certain that in the next year or two I will be trading it in for something different. It will almost certainly be bigger, probably an 'adventure' bike of some sort (hopefully KTM but probably Triumph), but I have also been considering shifting to a sports tourer of some sort. Anyway, people keep telling me that I already have the best bike and there's no need to change, but I'd really like to discover this for myself! I may well end up back on a v-strom in the future, but I'd like to try a few other bikes first!

[Firestorm]

Pretty much what Gassoon said. Many of us on here (I suspect) are not in the first flush of youth and have owned and ridden more bikes than we can remember. Both of those conditions are age related by the way, not a measure of expertise! There isn't the perfect bike out there in my humble opinion and I've looked long and hard. There are Bikes that are better than others at some things and looking for the Bike that best suits your needs/wants is great fun - particularly if most of them are someone elses! It also throws up some unlikely contenders for best all round bike. For me, the best all rounder I've owned for solo use is the humble GSXF750 Suzuki. Roundly slated in the press and called the 'Teapot'. For 2 up work and comfort for Mrs Firestorm the current Glee comes close although she preferred the 1300 Pan European so the Glee is an instant compromise.
I've ridden the 1200 GS and really enjoyed it. Lighter than it looks, quite a bit of low down power, goes quick when needed and handles well. Its comfy for two with luggage as well. Its only reliability that stopped me (along with the price!) Another age related thing for me is the myriad gizmos that come on new bikes now. I like to be able to keep a bike for years if it suits and fix most things myself without needing £10,000 worth of computermebobs, a degree in electronics or a 15 year old kid with a laptop to tell me what's wrong.

Ride as many as you can Matt even if you don't think you'll like it or someone has told you its crap because looking for a new bike is almost as much fun as getting one!

[loggamatt]

That makes sense Gassoon  I think the GS is a bit of a bike that pushes some people's buttons around here too, because people get annoyed with the stereotypical GS rider thinking everyone else's bike is inferior and being oblivious to the failings (reliability!) of his own bike. I like to think that if I ever did get a GS I wouldn't be like that.

I am kind of a person who likes to prove things himself before he believes them though. My last 3 cars were Citroens, and if you listen to conventional wisdom they break down every other week. Plenty of people told me I was crazy to buy them, but all 3 cars gave me years of trouble free driving. So it's less that I'm rationalising that reliability isn't important, more that I might choose to find out for myself what the GS is like. Again, keeping in mind that nothing here is a real disaster... if I ever do buy a GS, it breaks a lot, I don't like it... I just have to sell it, get a different bike and everything is alright again

I take your point though that a lot of my posts on a V-Strom forum are about other bikes. I could see how that might be annoying. I'll try to keep those thoughts to myself a little more from now on... I should probably join a general biking forum one day too for such things, might have a look at what's out there later.

JRS81 & stevee_p - Good to hear your thoughts on this too! I'm glad I'm not the only new rider who is giving some thought to changing bikes at some point. Very interesting too that you are two new riders... one who bought a 650cc bike and now wants to try a 1000cc+ bike, and another who bought a 1000cc bike and now wants to try a 650cc bike. Just goes to show, one thing isn't necessarily better than the other... new riders just want to try out all the various options out there.

Firestorm - Thanks! I think so too... I enjoy finding out about new bikes and reading about them even if I'm not ready to buy one. As I say, this doesn't mean I'm unhappy with the Glee in any way... it's just, I like looking at bikes

[loggamatt]

Alright, booked in for a test of the GS and the Trumpet Explorer tomorrow... thus resulting in all the people on here who keep telling me "for the love of god Matt, stop talking about bikes and test ride some of them, then you'll know!" to say "about bloody time!"

The Trumpet bloke on the phone immediately started talking about 0% finance and free accessories (free panniers apparently). I hope I don't get swayed... while a GS is unaffordable at the moment, the Trumpet may be just affordable, what with the cheap finance and free accessories. Must stay strong!!

[Abercol]

So what seems to be the consensus is: Buy two bikes, oh, and a Citroen car    and all will be right with your world....

Hmmm, have Citroen car...is it reliable? Yup.

Have Vee...is it reliable? Yup.

Now need another bike, suggestions please (but no BMW's   )

Needs to cope with pillions and be good for the short legged as I'm a tall dwarf 29" inside leg. I've even been eyeing up a Triumph Rocket 3 Touring!

[loggamatt]

I'd get the Rocket 3 Roadster and add a touring screen and leather saddlebags. That way you can change it from a touring bike to a stripped back 'hot rod' bike depending on what you're doing.

OK, I really am going to stop talking about other bikes now  But I may post a quick review of the Explorer and GS after tomorrow.

[frez]

Matching leather chaps...