Author Topic: changing oil and filter. advice needed. (Read 4544 times)

thebigcheese · « **on:** August 24, 2013, 12:51:29 »

Right was going to change oil and filter on bike. have new filter, sump washer and castrol fully syn oil (got on tescos clearout deal).

Oil not due a change but going to change it before my trip round europe in 3 weeks. any advice on how best to do it, any do's and don't's. put bike on sidestand or centrestand? torque setting for sump plug etc.

Any previous threads explain this, can't find any atm

hookie · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2013, 13:58:38 »

Remove the sump guard. Give the bike a short run, say 5 miles to get the oil nice and hot. If you've got some nitrile or latex gloves it's a good idea to wear them to reduce dirty oil contact with your hands. Put the bike on the centre stand and then remove drain plug and leave the oil to drain. Unscrew the filter and let any extra oil to drain. When all the oil has finished dripping clean round the oil filter seating, run a dab of clean oil round the seating and then round the seal on the new filter. Screw the filter on and tighten. If it's a genuine Suzuki filter the factory recommendation is to tighten it two full turns after the seal contacts the engine casting. If it's a non Suzuki filter then follow the makers instructions. I usually tighten them as tight as I can get it with two clean hands! Clean round the sump drain hole. Clean the drain plug and fit the new washer and then screw it back into the sump. Tighten it to 23N-m or 16.5lb-ft. Carefully refill the engine with oil until the top line on the site glass is reached. Put the filler cap back, start the engine and let it tick over for a couple of minutes. Roll the bike off the centre stand and put it on the side stand. Stand on the right side on the bike and pull the bike so it's upright and the look at the oil level again. You'll probably have to add some more oil to get it to the top line. When the oil level is right. Put the bike back on the centre stand and run the it again for another few minutes and check for leaks around the filter and drain plug. If all is OK replace the sump guard. Job done...

iansoady · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2013, 14:44:14 »

I've never seen the point in getting the oil hot especially with modern 10W/40 and the like, which is very fluid when cold. All it does is to distribute it around the engine and make it more likely some (eg in the heads) will be left behind when you drain.

I always drain from stone cold but leave the plug out for 5 - 10 minutes while I do something else (and of course remembering to put it back before refilling!)

I think that advice dates to the use of straight 50 grade and such like which like treacle when cold, and has just never been updated. But I'm always ready to be proved wrong......

hookie · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2013, 16:31:05 »

The rationale for draining the oil when hot has more to do with helping remove any debris and sediments that would have settled with a cold engine rather than speeding up the process due to it being hot. Whether hot or cold the important thing is that the oil gets changed.

PhotoRex · « **Reply #4 on:** August 24, 2013, 16:49:53 »

Quote from: "iansoady"

I always drain from stone cold but leave the plug out for 5 - 10 minutes while I do something else (and of course remembering to put it back before refilling!)

That's where I've been going wrong!

;-)

mr_diver · « **Reply #5 on:** August 24, 2013, 23:02:53 »

Remove engine guard.
Run til 3 bars warm display.
Dump oil from sump plug
Remove oil filter.
Leave for 30 mine while doing othr service items (plugs, air filter clean- k&n filter I have will never need to be replaced, ect)
Replace sump plug
Fit new oil filter- oil seal and fill with a little new oil.
Suzuki filters require 2 and a third turns past hand tight, hi-flo and champion ones I have used have been hand tight and never leaked.
Fill with oil while held upright by second person... Center stand will give a faulse reading.
Run for 3 mins while checking for leaks and after leaving to stand for a few mins re-check the oil level.

Jobs a good one!

greywolf · « **Reply #6 on:** August 24, 2013, 23:31:22 »

Suzuki oil filters need two turns past O-ring contact. 2-1/3 turns past hand tight is way too tight.

iansoady · « **Reply #7 on:** August 25, 2013, 10:25:14 »

Quote from: "mr_diver"

Fill with oil while held upright by second person... centre stand will give a faulse reading.

This was always said about my previous Triumph Tiger. When I actually checked, there was no perceptible difference between being on the centre stand and being held vertical (dip stick rather than window on the Tiger). Not all of us have the luxury of a second pair of hands immediately available.....

Anybody actually checked to see whether there is a difference on the Wee / Vee?

longman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 25, 2013, 10:45:57 »

I check mine on centre stand and never had a problem.

hookie · « **Reply #9 on:** August 25, 2013, 13:46:17 »

Quote

Not all of us have the luxury of a second pair of hands immediately available.....

With the bike on level ground and on it's side stand, you stand on the right side of the bike, grip the twist grip and pull the front brake lever. It's then easy and safe to pull the bike into an upright and stable position to let you then look at the oil level sight glass. Then just lower the bike back onto its side stand. If you don't have a centre stand this is the best way to check the level if on you're own.

TravellingStrom · « **Reply #10 on:** August 25, 2013, 15:21:44 »

[edit: figures intended for old 650 only

]

Um, basic stuff here, let the stuff drain out

You will notice, whether you have a center stand or side stand, the bike leans one way or the other. If you can tilt it forward or backward so that most of the oil comes out all the better

Once the filter is off, there will be yet more old oil, let it drain. Time is the issue, if you have some, let it drain. If the oil is warm, it will take less time(and incidentally remove more gungy bits than cold oil)

Once you are satisfied you can screw in the drain plug and install the new filter and fill with oil.

At this point I have to say there is no need to muck around with leveling the bike or which way it leans, you have two choices:

1. You were a good person to your bike and changed the oil filter - add 2700ml oil, that's it job done go ride ***Seriously, bugger all this leveling and sight glasses and topping up, if the engine is empty, add 2700ml, job done

{the best part here is I have a 250ml oil resovoir for my chain oiler, every oil change I add the extra 300ml out of 3lt to my or as much as I can and I am good for another 8,000km)

2. You were less than ordinary to your personal transport and did not change the oil filter, add 2400ml oil(double check this figure, I have never done it so am not 100% positive), go for a ride

keep in mind, there was old oil in the filter, it will dilute your nice new stuff, Suzuki say change every two, the choice is yours, filters are cheap, engines aren't.

No real need for a new sump plug crush washer, but if you have one use it if you wish

Tighten the oil drain plug with the OEM spanner, unless you are Arnie your strength and leverage should make the nut tight not strip it.

that's it, takes about 20 minutes, allowing for drainage, buying oil and filter etc, then go ride.

Cheers
TS

hookie · « **Reply #11 on:** August 25, 2013, 15:59:08 »

Quotes from the Suzuki DL1000 manual. The 650 may be different.
Oil change only- 2,700ml.
Oil + filter change- 2,900ml.
Engine overhaul- 3,300ml.

If you can accurately judge the amount you pour from a 4 or 5l can of oil than by all means pour it straight in and don't bother to check the sight glass.

Using a torque wrench to tighten the sump plug is the correct and best way to do the job properly especially if you're not a regular DIYer. Over tighten and strip it and you won't be going anywhere. Under tighten it and it may unscrew and come out and budget for a new motor. Worse still you could be taking a trip to A & E having lost the plot on all the oil covering your back tyre.

TravellingStrom · « **Reply #12 on:** August 25, 2013, 16:18:21 »

My mistake, happy to stand corrected. This is a 1000 thread, somehow I missed that, all my comments relate to a 650

Sorry for the confusion, mods welcome to delete my earlier post

TS

Strommer · « **Reply #13 on:** August 25, 2013, 19:17:51 »

Tighten the plug to 12nm then see if that feels tight enough...if it does, leave alone. Complication is the feel of the new washer crushing which can mess up the "tighten as you feel" technique. I've never used a torque wrench on the plug - I experimented using the wrench on other bolts and 12/16 felt fine to me, so now do it by feel. Seems to be about 16.

BTW even if you're nervous about this, you have a better chance of getting it right than a mechanic, so take the plunge and learn the technique that works for your bike.

greywolf · « **Reply #14 on:** August 25, 2013, 20:31:25 »

Some people have no feel for torque. They need to use a tool that does, especially on anything with "plug" in the name.

thebigcheese · « **Reply #15 on:** August 25, 2013, 20:37:12 »

Hand tighten hi flow filter, what torque for the plug then?

greywolf · « **Reply #16 on:** August 25, 2013, 21:19:17 »

Quote from: "thebigcheese"

Hand tighten hi flow filter, what torque for the plug then?

23Nm for the drain plug on the Vee.

Andy M · « **Reply #17 on:** August 26, 2013, 08:20:02 »

My Argos / Walmart torque wrench rants are elsewhere so I won't repeat. Let's just say the numbers on that over priced extension bar are largely meaningless, better to use the OEM tool kit. If it dribbles later just nip it up.

If you want cheap but useful tools, try a Wilco's measuring jug for 99p. Tip in lots of 1000ml, then the fraction, tidy up any splashes/ check for leaks and go ride.

Checking round everything you disturbed after the test ride is the bit the stealers miss.

Andy

iansoady · « **Reply #18 on:** August 27, 2013, 17:15:42 »

As I had a little time on my hands, I thought I'd check what the actual difference was with the bike on the centre stand. I tried 2 positions:

1. Bike normally on centre stand with front wheel on (level) floor and back wheel in the air:

2. Trolley jack under crankcase lifting front wheel off the deck till back wheel firmly down:

Note that the angle of the photos doesn't mean anything as I was leaning over from the other side to take them.

These seem to be the extremes, and having it on the centre stand guarantees it's level horizontally (I did check with a spirit level). I would think that the bike with its weight on its wheels would be somewhere in between the two.

There is a just perceptible difference between the two - maybe a couple of mm - but not so much that I would lose any sleep over it.

So I'm quite happy to continue checking with the bike on the centre stand.

greywolf · « **Reply #19 on:** August 27, 2013, 17:59:47 »

I haven't done a comparison for a while. When I did, the full mark with the bike on the tyres translated to the tiniest of air spaces in the top of the window on the centre stand. I like to keep the oil topped up to help keep the stator c-o-o-l.

No dammit, I did not mean cold or great; stupid Americanism filter.