Stuck in gear?

[mjc506]

So... after a great week oop norf, the bike behaved perfectly until ~100miles from home on the way back.

M1 southbound, and I flash a truck across into my lane to let someone join off the sliproad. I shift into 4th to accelerate away again, and then discover I can't shift into 5th! Can't get into 3rd either, so I stop at the next services to see if I can free it up. (sidenote: manoeuvring an overloaded strom through a carpark is difficult in 4th)

The lever moves a little up and down, but stops dead just before it should click up and down the gearbox. The clutch is fine, actuates nicely, and locks/opens fine (and feels 'right'). Rotating the back wheel back and forth while trying to shift makes no difference, and I can't feel anything moving internally while I do.

So I give up, and decide to get back home in 4th. I make it out of the services and onto the motorway fine, but as I take my exit, I have to get round a roundabout, then go up a steep hill. Riding the clutch this hard to get going overheats it, and I now have no real power. The RAC rescue me this time

So I've cooked the clutch, and something's up with the gearbox. I've not found any reports of gearbox problems for the DL650 or the sv650 that match my symptoms (although there's an sv report that's close) but I'm hoping I can see/fix the problem just by taking the clutch and gen covers off!

Current plan is to open it up, check/service/fix the clutch, and see what I can see around the gearbox before I do any more. Where's best to get a 'pack' to service the clutch? And I can't find which gaskets I need, but found mention of people using a liquid gasket... is this as good?

Ta

[Jacko]

That does not sound good. Are you sure your gear lever linkages haven't seized?  This can sometimes make gear selection difficult. I was checking mine today and it appears as if Suzuki don't grease them at all as mine were shiny new and bone dry..

[Juvecu]

+1 for starting with the gear selection linkages. It's an easy job that doesn't need opening anything up. I had a similar issues, but I got stuck in 3rd gear (IIRC) and had to shift very hard to get into any other gear. I also have trouble shifting if my oil level gets low, but it's not the same thing as what you're describing.

[mjc506]

Yup, gear linkages are (unfortunately) fine. I needed to pull the clutch side anyway to check how many plates I cooked, and it looks like I can play with most of the mechanism without going much further (according to the manual)

Pics to follow

[Jacko]

Ahh, that's a shame.. Suzuki gearboxes are renowned for their robustness, I hope it's not an engine out job.. :(

[Strommer]

Is the clutch cable cage rotating?  I've had grit enter mine and seize it solid meaning I am stuck in a single gear.  Same goes for grit in the cable or a split cable jamming the cable run.

[mjc506]

Yeah, I really don't want to drop the engine if I can help it!

The clutch is working fine I'm afraid (apart from the cooked plates).

Pics as promised:

Burnt clutch plate (bad pic, sorry)


Non-burnt plate(s)


Clutch basket (which I now need to remove)


What I can see of the mechanism



So tonight's job is to buy a 27mm socket, remove the clutch basket and have a closer look. As it's stuck in gear, I can just lock the back wheel and not worry about holding the generator rotor with the 'special tool' Hmm, need to find my circlip pliers as well, and get some decent cleaner...

oh, and the front sprocket is nearly gone too, so a new C&S kit is on the cards

[Descolada]

Sorry you are having so much trouble with this. I'm afraid I can't add anything to what has already been suggested, but wanted to say how useful it is to get a good look inside this area and the clutch plate assembly. Great photos, thanks for posting.

Good luck with getting this fixed and please let us know what the cause of the problem was?

Des

[mjc506]

No problem! The bike has undoubtedly seen a little abuse under me (and my pillion, and luggage) and I have no real idea what the previous owner done to it, so I don't mind pulling it apart - it gives me chance to check things, and photos are always helpful.

With any luck, I'll get the clutch completely out of the way tonight and at least be able to see the problem. I've still got to order clutch parts and gaskets, but will hopefully get a single complete order together!

More photos, and a diagnosis to follow

[mjc506]

Fuckityarsebugger

Clutch basket removed


This is what I was expecting to be broken. Note the long bolt in the middle. On Gixxers and some SV's, this has backed out, letting the star cam move in relation to the shift barrel. Not in this case, although there is some wear on it.


All the selector mechanism gone


But the problem still remains. The barrel will move a little, but not enough to change gear. Something's nadgered inside

So I've got to drop the engine and split the cases. But to split the cases I think I need to remove the heads/pistons/magic elves/etc... not looking forward to that.

[Descolada]

Damn, that's not good at all. I assume you have looked at other forums for suggestions?

http://www.stromtrooper.com/general-v-s ... utral.html

http://www.stromtrooper.com/DL650-2004- ... -gear.html

Sorry I can't be of more help. If I find anything I will update you.

[mjc506]

Yeah, I've been doing the research, thanks for looking though

I'm pretty certain the problem is either something to do with either part 3 below (shift fork 3-4 gear), assy 7 (or it's bearings maybe? unlikely - the rotational limit is hard and consistent) or the actual gears/dogs in the gearbox somehow stuck together. As I understand it, the gear selector barrel should spin in either direction with little resistance (with the rear wheel turning) between gear 1 and 6.


One thing I did notice...parts 4 and 5 slide sideways in the crankcase easily (I can see/touch them through holes in the crankcase). Maybe that's required to let the forks move back and forth easily, but there also appears to be a little radial play too (not that I can tell particularly well), Steel tube rattling around in an cast aluminium case sounds bad news to me? Perhaps there's a steel bushing inside I can't see yet. That they (parts 4 and 5) move back and forth easily suggests to me that the shifting forks have not seized on these runners.

This thread seems to suggest that I may not need to replace much, but...

[Strommer]

Assy 7 was the bit I was referring to.  It's worth making sure that moves freely before dismantling other stuff.  It's easy to clean if the ball bearings are stuck.  Less easy to put back together though....

[mjc506]

Yes, assy 7 does not move freely, but I can't see any way of accessing it without splitting the cases? The ball bearing I can see looks fine, the needle bearing internally I can't see, and could be the cause of failure, but it doesn't 'feel' right.

[mjc506]

OK, stripped the wee last night, while I'm waiting for certain tools.

Start with 1 (one) wee, in a completely clean and tidy work area
Yeah, you'll see that I've already removed the clutch cover.

Remove plastics...


..radiator... (check out the paint flapping around inside the inlet! Where's the rest of it gone?...)


..and tank


You'll also need to remove the pannier racks (if fitted) to access the exhaust mounting bolts:


Next is the exhaust. I was surprised - not all the bolts were welded on! The front cylinder allen bolts came out fairly happily, and the lump of rust at the bottom of the front header grew 6 sides and also came out without too many problems. The top/rear exhaust hanger bolt is a pain (both of those are bolts/nuts) as it has no access to the nut behind it, and the bottom nut/bolt (captive nut?) next to the footpeg might need drilling, but much better than I expected!

More to follow...

[Descolada]

Great Stuff. Keep those pictures coming. I take it the fish pond is for the bit's you don't need any more?  

[mjc506]

fish pond? that's my de-greasing bath

[Juvecu]

You're doing this outside?

[mjc506]

Yeah, I have nowhere else to do it

[Descolada]

For what it's worth, I don't have a garage either. So all my work has to be done at the mercy of the weather. I am currently looking into constructing a (non-static) protective 'lean-to' from PVC pipes and tarpaulin for when I have no choice in the matter and the weather is determined to dampen my day  

Des