Author Topic: E10 Petrol (Read 2763 times)

graingerblaze · « **on:** February 25, 2021, 09:02:58 »

Since the government has announced that E10 petrol will be made the standard grade across the country in September, I thought I would do a little reading. It looks to be no problem for our bikes, even the first generation models. I will probably switch to E5 premium to be safe for the first year, see how it goes.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emissions/what-is-e10-fuel-and-how-could-it-affect-you/

https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/manufacturer/Suzuki

Hopefully a storm in teacup and nothing for us of older bikes to worry about. The march to electric/hydrogen is inevitable but I hope to keep my bike going for years to come

Brockett · « **Reply #1 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:09:35 »

So a couple of years slowly bringing my 1990 VX800 back to life is to be blighted by the non availability of suitable fuel at a reasonable price

Rixington43 · « **Reply #2 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:10:35 »

Thanks for the research, I had intended to check when I saw the announcement some time ago but forgot. I usually run premium in the bike anyway but nice to know I won't destroy the old girl if I forget.

Keith60 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:13:29 »

So what do the owners of any classic bikes do?? Or would they need any modifications, if such a thing is available for classics!! 🙁🙁🙁

graingerblaze · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:16:35 »

Yes Brockett, running older bikes will become an expensive hobby. I run old bikes because I like there simplicity, no need for a degree in electronics and a laptop to service.

Just hope they don't whack a large fuel duty hike on the E5 variants! I know the talk is that the 5p tax hike has been postponed in the March budget, but he may sneak an increase in on E5 fuel to accelerate the demise of older polluting vehicles.

Keith60, they will still offer E5 fuel on UK forecourts, just in premium disguise so will cost a lot more.

StromGeeza · « **Reply #5 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:33:48 »

Don't worry about your running older bikes too much. You likely don't do spaceship mileage on them, so a few p more on fuel is not a big deal.
The bigger picture is a negligible effect on the vast majority of petrol-engined vehicles driving around and they can run a bit cleaner without doing anything more trouble other than continuing to fill up.
Reminded of the hand wringing back when leaded fuel was getting phased out. Drivers survived.

Mr Nick · « **Reply #6 on:** February 25, 2021, 09:53:20 »

My big Guzzi needs 97 RON minimum so only the dear stuff for her. The V50 and TS run better on it so they all get treated to the same as well.
Suzuki say all from '02 OK, but '92 - '01 need to be checked. Before '91 they say no.
KTM have been E10 compatible since 2000 apparently.

Brockett · « **Reply #7 on:** February 25, 2021, 10:34:03 »

My VX service sheet does not mention E5/10 for the UK version so I'm not sure that E5 can be used without harming the engine. That said I'm not sure why E5/E10 is not suitable.
The USA model of my VX will run on E10 I can see a some different carurettor jetting and two degrees lower full ingnition advance. There may be other factors but in general the engine mechanicals are identicle. The California version has that pulsed air exhaust injection do dab.
This might be of interest:-
https://autotechnician.co.uk/forewarned-is-forearmed-e10-petrol/

Mr Nick · « **Reply #8 on:** February 25, 2021, 11:51:33 »

The ignition timing and jetting might be due to the lower RON fuel available in the states, and the emissions requirement being lower as well.

mr_diver · « **Reply #9 on:** February 25, 2021, 14:57:54 »

SWMBO's GSX14 will run happily on more or less anything, but the Varadero it a jittering, hunting, cutting out nightmare on anything from supermarket forecourts.
That's with E5, I'm not looking forward to E10 being introduced.

And now the bikes are not front line transport they are likely to sit with the fuel in the tank of far longer between uses.

bonne · « **Reply #10 on:** February 27, 2021, 09:01:25 »

We have been having E10 here for a couple of years (and actually E85 for an even longer time). I ran the 2017 DL650 for 24.000 km on E10 sometimes, other times E5 - no problems at all.

On my Honda Civic I tend to feel that the engine runs better on E10 than on E5 (because it has a small turbo).

Regards, Lars.

deecat · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2021, 18:46:29 »

Another reason to think about selling the xj750!

Dark-Strom · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2021, 20:21:36 »

Fuel injection conversion?
What's the reality of that on a bike?
A friend has a classic car and its one thing he's getting done due to regular fouling of plugs, carbs etc. - admittedly infrequent use doesn't help him.

Mr Nick · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2021, 21:57:51 »

There's plenty ethanol 'safe' bikes run carbs so maybe a more realistic open would be to upgrade them to newer ones.

The Border Riever · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2021, 22:09:59 »

I think a bigger concern will be Winter storage, I believe ethanol likes to draw moisture through separation from the petrol, I think an additive will be needed for bikes that are laid up for the winter!

deecat · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2021, 22:12:52 »

To be honest, I built it for my son and it just sits in his garage due to work and home commitments. So I am thinking that it would be better to let it go as I don't have the space for it with the V-strom and Tracer.
It was a ground up build taking me a lot longer than anticipated and I don't want to spend anymore time on it.

Mr Nick · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2021, 22:19:02 »

That's what stabilisers are there for. My garage is dehumidified but I still dose the bikes before their last run then drain the float bowls when they're tucked in for the winter. Just have to remember to stir it all up before opening the fuel taps again as I discovered that some of the stabiliser seems to sink and it doesn't burn that well by itself.

The XS looks quite nice: that's the first bike of my dad's that I can remember being on. I briefly owned an XS250 which was passed on to a custom builder & I wonder what happened to it.

graingerblaze · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2021, 22:27:03 »

If it’s any help, come September we can all still buy E5 fuel, just it won’t be the common grade. It will remain on sale (perhaps not at all garages) but in a premium grade, so more expensive but available.

If you cover little miles, then an extra 15-20 pence per litre premium will be cheaper than converting a bike.

Dark-Strom · « **Reply #18 on:** March 06, 2021, 08:54:49 »

I did learn first hand the dangers of ethanol and plastic tanks on my triumph, swollen tank, knackered paint etc.
I now choose bikes with metal tanks and use fuel stabiliser over the winter.

bonne · « **Reply #19 on:** March 06, 2021, 10:02:42 »

Germany had this discussion some years ago when they also moved from E5 to E10. Consumers demanded E5 back, and the last time I was in Germany, tanks offered both E5 and E10 among others.

Same in Denmark. We have an Octane 100 Which is E5. The rest is E10

From when I did some research on it, E10 can be problematic for engines that are not prepared for it. It can cause rust in tanks, damage to hoses and seals among other. If the engine is made for E10, there should be absolutely no reason not to run on E10 except for lower effect/higher consumption.... on some engine. On my car engine, I tend to feel that the turbo like the 5 % extra ethanol.

If you store your MC during winter and the tank is metal, you should either empty it or fill it to the max