No Charge

[davef]

First run of the season and the bike cuts out with a flat (new) battery. It isn't receiving any charge. Managed to get home by fitting old battery, removing headlight fuses and jump starting from the car. Battery just survived the 20 mile run home. Its a 2010 ALO 650 with very low miles.
Tried a leakage test, when re-connecting the negative lead to the battery via a multimeter, it initially takes about 0.1 to 0.14 amp while the rev counter and speedo swings round and back ( no dash lights and with ignition off), then current drops to 0.01 to 0.02 amp while on the 10amp scale, but when set at the 200mA scale even after the speedo swinging phase it shows an over-read.
Should the clocks do their swinging routine when re-connecting the battery with the ignition off?
Does the leakage and lack of charging suggest the rectifier - or the stator?
I have started the laborious process of removing panels - why do they make it so complicated? but ran out of time so yet to remove the tank and air filter  - just to get to the connectors to try the Haynes test for regulator and stator.

[kwackboy]

Has your bike had the stator recall ..? When you say no charge, this generally means the stator has given up. Rectifier issues generally offer symptoms of reduced charging or over charging.

[davef]

I bought the bike about 4 1/2 years ago so didn't know there had been a stator recall - is there any way of checking if this has been done? Was there a period when faulty stators were fitted?

[mr_diver]

A 2010 bike wouldn't have had the recall.
Only L2 (2012) and later bikes were affected.

[Gassoon]

there's a a handy guide/flow-chart for tracing electrical problems on modern bikes posted by Martin on the forum HERE

Also, when you type 'stator' into the search box, you get lots of fine pics and experiences of stator failures, suggested remedies (rewinds and OEM vs. other alternatives etc). Worth a look, davef    Seems it's not unknown for magnets to come adrift, coils to fail (looking blackened) etc. A visual inspection would probably be the way to go

[davef]

Got the tank and air filter housing off at last, to get access to the 2 connector blocks, the 3-way connector from the alternator and the 4-way from the regulator. The Haynes tests for the stator were spot on - each wire had 0.2 - 0.3 ohm resistance and each had no shorting to earth.
The tests on the r/r were less clear. On diode setting on a cheap multimeter, it was giving readings of 542 where Haynes says 0.4 - 0.7, and of 1082 where Haynes says 0.5 - 1.2. Which I'm assuming is all good. But on those combinations where Haynes says 1.4+, it gave no reading at all. Having limited understanding of electronics, I'm not sure if that is a good reading or not - presumably showing open circuit?
Thanks for the flow chart Gassoon, though some of it would be difficult as the tank and air filter have to be off to get at the connector pins, so you cannt start the engine to do the tests. There isn't enough cable  to pull the connectors below the frame to enable access to them with the air filter housing and tank back on. It is a crazy design.
After pulling various connectors apart all of which looked good and re-connecting them, and looking for frayed or burnt wiring, I put the air filter housing back - a dementing job, then the tank and started her up - but just the same absolutely no charge going to the battery.
I guess the next job will be to take off the stator and inspect it. Is the stator/magnets running in oil or dry - do you have to drain the engine oil before removing the alternator casing?
Or is there anything else to try first?

[kwackboy]

You don't need to take the alternator cover off to determine the stator condition,  Proper tests will show if the alternator is faulty or not.
You say none of the 3 fazes shorted out to earth however, this doesn't mean the stator is good.
You need to disconnect the 3way stator connection while it's running and test the output from each faze.
Simply put your meter on high voltage setting and put the 2 probes on all three pairs to test the output.
Each output should exceed around 45v + (I think) with a blip of the throttle up to about 4-5k rpm.

If the stator on all 3 fazes don't short to earth and achieve the required voltage then your stator is fine.
By powers of deduction the regulator should be at fault as long as all wiring is present and correct.

The stator requires cooling by splash effect (with oil) and the 650s do not suffer from magnet issues , it's the 1000 Vees . 

[davef]

Thanks kwackboy. Just to be clear, do I put one probe on each stator wire in turn while the other is to earth, or test with each probe on one of the stator wires ie both probes on stator wires? I guess set the meter to read A/C voltage?

[kwackboy]

Here is a series of photos of the meter setting needed and where the probes should be.
The plug is similar to what you have it's just the female version.
Remember the plug leading to the stator should be unplugged from the regulator with the bike running.
All three positions tested should achieve over 45v at around 4k rpm 

[davef]

Thanks kwackboy - made it very clear.
Tried what you said and each combination gave 60v at 4,000rpm, which suggests nothing wrong with stator, so I've sent for a new r/r. Fingers crossed its not something else.
I did a quick voltage check on the 4-pin socket that plugs into the rectifier - each of the red/black wires were at battery voltage, and each black/white appeared to be at negative earth. (Engine off)
It does seem a crazy design where there is insufficient length of wiring to be able to pull the connectors down to get at them without removing the side panels/tank/air filter housing, quite a laborious job....though I'm getting quicker at it with practise....

[Gassoon]

and the 650s do not suffer from magnet issues , it's the 1000 Vees .

Er, well-spotted that man - I got a bit carried away with my examples!

good luck with it davef, sounds like you might have cracked it

[kwackboy]

Good news it's not the stator..  . Not sure what regulator you have ordered but make sure it's not a Chinese version.

[Rusty Nuts]

Hope that gets it sorted, davef.


Can I hijack the thread for a moment to say a huge thank you to Kwackboy for freely sharing the knowledge he's supposed to charge us for, in this and other threads, and for putting in the time and trouble  to take and post the pictures. Like many of us on here, I've learned loads by reading posts from people who actually know what they are talking about.

[MartinW]

  

[kwackboy]

  rusty  .

[Gassoon]

Good post Rusty, it’s great to have a pro like kwackboy giving us all technical, experienced advice.
Most of the time the rest of us can only give pointers in a general direction