Fork upgrade.

[Hondaman]

I have always found the forks fitted to the glee so-so at best. Reasonable handling but a little harsh at normal speeds over larger lumps bumps & potholes.
After a spirited run on varied, including bumpy backroads, I'm now thinking they definately need improving, not something I generally bother with on previous bikes.

As I see it, the options are;
 *Fit replacement springs, this won't address the poor damping.
*Fit something like Racetech gold valve Emulators or Ricor Intiminators, which hopefully would improve damping control.
*Send the forks to a specialist (they'll probably fit new springs etc but can they do anything with the basic damper rod system?

I did fit gold valve emulators in the Transalp once which seemed to offer some improvement although their forks  have a plusher ride than the glee as stock.

Anyone have any experience of any of the above or can offer any useful input?

Cheers

[hookie]

There are several companies that can re-spring and re-valve your forks to suit your weight and to some extent your riding style, e.g. Maxton and K Tech. You could also go on the Racetrack web site and find out what rate springs you need for your weight and fit these yourself and then try some different fork oils. People often mistake a harsh front end when hitting bumps for too hard springs when in fact is more often due to over hard damping and using a thinner oil often helps.

[Hondaman]

Thanks for that hookie, yes I feel the harshness is due to poor damping rather than springs.
The spring rate feels OK with near full preload.

How do suspension specialists 'revalve' damper rod forks - there is no valving as such just forcing oil through fixed holes in the damper rod, unlike on proper cartridge forks that can be revalved to change damping characteristics.
I don't know, maybe there is a way?

Phil

[hookie]

I've no experience of forks using damper rods or the valve emulators but have heard some good reports on them. Suggest you contact some of the specialists and see what they can offer. Playing around with different oils is worth a try, but most modern forks don't have drain plugs which makes the whole job more time consuming.
 

[Hondaman]

As damper rods are hollow, oil changes aren't too bad, a 100ml syringe with a length of clear tubing allows virtually all or part of the oil to be removed.

A bit more info:
Some time back, I removed some of the stock 10wt oil & replaced with 5wt to give ~7.5 wt, fork action felt improved, I removed some 7.5wt & replaced with 2.5wt to give what I'm guessing ~5wt in the forks, I believe they felt worse than the 7.5wt oil.
I must revert back to 7.5wt oil.
Oil level is stock (although when first opened it was 20mm below std level..?)

I recently fitted new Bridgestone A40s, the ride was slightly but noticeably harsher after fitting them. I must slacken and jiggle everything & retighten the pinchbolts just to be sure.

I might post the same Q over on stromtrooper for feedback,  as Americans seem to change & modify their bikes more than us Brits and may have more feedback.

Maybe Greywolf knows of options & how effective they are?

Phil

So far after nearly a year of glee ownership my only grumbles are:
Screens: par for the course with upright bikes.
Exhaust: simply too quiet, minor issue that's now addressed ;)
Suspension: notably forks, too crude. Hopefully improved for under £200

So we're not doing badly

[greywolf]

I'm only familiar with companies in the USA. Drilling out the damper rod holes to make them pass oil more easily and adding cartridge emulators such as by Race-Tech to take over damping chores is a popular option. The best results come from having the forks re-worked for real cartridges. I had Traxxion do that for my Wee but it's expensive. If you don't get what you need locally, these are good places.

http://www.adventurepowersports.us/
http://www.motocd.com/
http://www.traxxion.com/

[Hondaman]

Cheers for that GW,
I didn't think they could be fitted with cartridges butsounds expensive!
I did wonder about seeing if a cartridge set up from another bike could be sourced but probably more trouble & expense than it's worth.

I have fitted gold valve emulators in the past & worked well but are an essentially one way mod.
Do you have experience of comparisons or feedback between drop in Ricor Intiminators or Gold valve emulators which require you to enlarge the compression damping holes???
These seem to be the most viable items in the UK, other than sending to a specialist.

[greywolf]

I would opt for drilling out the damper rod. Without doing that, the stock holes don't pass oil well enough to not be involved in damping. You want the added valves to be as responsible for damping as possible.

[Hondaman]

That makes sense, Racetech say drill the holes, Ricor say there's no need and to use thinner oil but I guess the holes are still a limiting factor even with thinner oil...
I do know a couple of lads with Intiminators & they have had good results with them.

I'll fiddle with basic stuff for the time being, maybe phone some suspension folks but ultimately it's a winter job ;)

[Jacksnipe]

My Glee front end was sorted by fitting Hagon Progressive Fork springs, they come with oil spec and air gap instructions. Front end was superb and is also on my Veek, this time Hyperpro were fitted same top result. IMHO messing about more than this is a waste of time. Front ends are planted , no more nodding dogs on braking and control is a vast improvement.

[Hondaman]

What about ride quality ie harshness particularly over larger lumps, bumps & potholes, as that is my main issue particularly since fitting the A40s.

[Jacksnipe]

Hondaman, Ability to handle both small and large potholes vastly improved ( I try to avoid them within reason) I have had this mod done on 4 bikes todate, without exception a vast improvement all round.

[Hondaman]

Thanks for the info, it sounds very promising

[Hondaman]

Just thinking out of the box a bit....

How good are original model,  std DL1000 forks (ie not usd)?
I believe them to be proper cartrige forks - are the spring & damping rates OK, do they handle & ride well?

I have a possible set of 1k forks available and thinking even if the fork lowers are different externally, it won't be a big job to swap the stanchions & cartrige internals to the 650 lowers....?

Cheers Phil

[greywolf]

Though the design theory is better, the actual performance is not much better, if any. The spring rates and valving don't work very well together. The axle is also a different diameter, the brake line anchors are all wrong and the mudguard connections are different. It's not a good idea.

[Hondaman]

OK, cheers GW.
I'll give that idea a miss then!

It looks like springs & oil first then Emulators if the springs don't make a suitable improvement.
I may get some cheap clamps to temporarily move the bars up & back slightly so oil/spring work can be carried out without continually removing the bars.

I have a little basic knowledge of various systems but never had much success when working with suspenders

[Hondaman]

Just bringing this up to date, I think I'll give the Ricor Intiminators a go.
I messaged Ricor last Wednesday, re shipping costs to the UK, no reply as yet which isn't very promising....

[Hondaman]

Ordered, delivered & got them fitted tonight.
Not all plain sailing but I'll post the verdict after a decent rideout

[Hondaman]

OK, I fitted the Intiminators & had a good trial with them this weekend over a whole range of riding conditions.

I purchased them directly from Ricors site & they were dispatched immediately via usps & tracking number supplied, the exchange rate wasn't the best, I was then charged £32 vat inc £8 uk post office charge, add a tenner for fork oil & the total is ~£170 so by no means cheap.

I syphoned the old oil out to save removing the wheel & forks, installation took about 2hrs & was straight forward.

The good & bad:
With preload set to the same as previously and laden with camping gear I set off.
The bike instantly feels tauter, picking up a little more small road imperfections than previously.
Braking yields much, like MUCH less brake dive and is slower & much more controlled on the front brake.
Heavy acceleration, the bike doesn't rock forward & backwards when changing gear as it did before. Larger lumps, bumps and potholes are still felt, the Intiminators certainly don't iron them out but they certainly do soften bumps, giving them a softer more rounded feel rather than the harsh bonejarring shock.

But, without doubt the most startling change is the way the bike handles & goes round corners, an absolute transformation. The bike steers much more accurately, is more controlled & you can feel what the front tyre is doing. An absolute hoot.

I'd like to try to tune out the slow speed choppiness over small bumps and I was expecting slightly better big bump absorption (although it is much improved over stock, overall I'm very happy, the way the bike can be thrown into corners with confidence is nothing short of fantastic.

Another positive, is that the rear shock now feels good, I was concerned the rear would feel rubbish & need upgrading!

Not cheap (but easily removed & resalable if required), they won't give a magic carpet ride but do give a worthwhile improvement and inspire cornering confidence with less brake dive.