Rear Wheel Bearings - How critical is the assembly order?

[Ambergnat]

Hi blokes,

Got a potential problem I'd like your input on.

I've just been fitting new bearings on the rear of the bike (L2 Glee), having discovered during a chain/sprocket change that the sprocket bearing had completely lunched itself at some point  - bits of bearing cage sticking out everywhere! and checking the wheel bearings found way too much play in them.

So I bought a full set of bearings & seals, and after much banging, tapping, bashing hands and    I finally got them in, got the seals in, wrestled the wheel back in place, got everything tightened up and then discovered that I'd installed the bearings in the wrong order...

My excuse (apart from being an idiot ) being that the bearing well on the sprocket side (left) has a flat base, and on the brake disk side (right) a chamfered/curved base, so I thought the flat base was the reference point that I should be working from.  

My main concerns are, given that the bearing on the left is now sat at the bottom of it's well:

(a) Just how far out of alignment is the back wheel now? and if it's just a matter of a couple of mm:

(b) How much damage is it likely to do to the other components on the bike affected by the mis-alignment (e.g. sprockets/chain/engine etc)    

I understand that it has the potential to warp the chain and wear the sprockets unevenly and more rapidly if it's way off, but I would have thought that if the bearings were vastly out of line, the seal (RHS) wouldn't have gone in properly and it went in without a problem and only sat about a half mil proud of its seat.

I haven't taken it out yet, and am reluctant to do so until I have a better idea of how badly I've buggered things up.

Problem is, she's my only transport and there's work on Monday (55mi RT commute to Guildford) so I've got an afternoon to fix tings...if I can, and I'm reluctant to start twatting around with bearings already in-place unless I really have to.

Any Ideas ? or am I asking another 'how long is a piece of string' question?

[ziggy]

I thought the two wheel bearings were the same size. I would think the sprocket carrier bearing is bigger so what have you assembled wrongly?

[Ambergnat]

Aah - No, sorry if I wasn't clear enough.

I fitted the sprocket carrier bearing successfully, but also decided to fit the two wheel bearings as well as there was too much play in them.  

Apparently there's a correct order to fit them because the spacer is slightly wider than the gap between the bottom of the two bearing wells, so you need to fit one first, put the spacer in and tap the second bearing in till it fit's snugly (but not tightly) against the spacer.

I think I have installed them in the wrong order, and am asking how out-of-line they are and what damage it will do if I don't change anything.

[ziggy]

I don't think you have a problem as both bearings are the same width. It does not matter which you fit first. When you drive the second bearing in if the spacer is nipped just tap either of the bearing back a little to free the spacer.

 

[V-Strom3]

Have you seen this that might be of use?
http://www.v-strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=16985#p151717

[Ambergnat]

Hi Ziggy,

I sincerely hope you're right  

The spacer is fine (snug but not tight) - but surely, given that the bearing wells are deeper than the actual bearings are wide, won't the relative positions of them will shift the wheel sideways one way or the other?

[Ambergnat]

Have you seen this that might be of use?
http://www.V-Strom.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=16985#p151717

Thanks V-strom3 that's a damn useful manual - I was using a Haynes manual - which specified fitting the RH bearing first (as does the service manual actually), but I was only looking at the pictures!

[greywolf]

The difference in rear wheel position will be very small. Try running on a flat area and remove your hands from the grips for a second and see if the bike turns by itself. If you can keep it fairly straight by body weight position alone, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Ambergnat]

Hi Greywolf,

Thanks for the advice, I was very much hoping that would be the case, but was a little worried about accelerated wear on chain and sprockets if they aren't properly aligned...

(and I've just shelled out £94 on them, plus another £20 for the bearings, £22 for a second hand hub (threaded a bolt on the old one) £33 for the chain link extractor and another tenner for a 32mm socket & some grease...it's beginning to add up )


I'll give it a try tomorrow  

[mjc506]

It'll be a few tenths of a mm (if that). You may lose a bit of life off of the bearings/drivechain, but nothing spectacular.

[iansoady]

The bikes I'm most familiar with (50s / 60s / 70s British "classics") normally have one bearing with its outer race constrained by a screwed plug / circlip etc with the other one allowed to float. The central spacer is long enough to ensure that when the spindle is tightened, the floating bearing doesn't bottom in its recess so all the axial load is on the inners.

I'm surprised that the V-Strom (and presumably other modern bikes) don't have any similar positive locating structure.

[greywolf]

The non bottomed bearing doesn't need to be additionally constrained. It is trapped in place by the spacers on the axle after being positioned upon installation against the central spacer.

[iansoady]

But that's only the inner race - exactly the same as I was describing. There doesn't seem to be anything stopping the outers from moving until they hit the respective bases of their recesses.

I know that Suzuki machining will be more precise than the bikes I mentioned but even so good practice would allow a certain amount of clearance between the outer race and the bottom of the recess - so in theory the entire wheel can move sideways, which I assume was the reason for Mr Gnat's original question.......

This could also result in some fretting of the bearing housings.

[ziggy]

iansody all of the bikes I have worked on since the late 90's have been very similar to this DL, as Greywolf said the bearing cannot move as it is locked in place by the compression of the spindle on the spacer which bear on the inner races.

 

[greywolf]

The inner race of a caged ball bearing being trapped and the outer race being pressed or driven into position along with the inner race on a force fit takes care of all forces after that. It works fine. There is no reason for concern. Tapered roller bearings would be a different story but caged ball bearings can be treated as units rather than individual parts.

[Ambergnat]

Hi Chaps,

Glad to see some healthy discussion continuing

Took the bike on the usual commute today - nice response from the new chain & sprocket (also did the inner tube trick with the cush rubbers - tightened it up completely   ) but I can feel something vibrating...

The problem is - I keep second guessing myself and thinking I'm imaging it, but It feels like the chain...and then I realised that the new front sprocket isn't damped like the old OEM version was - so it probably is the chain - which would (I hope) also account for the new, intrusive and somewhat irritating whine which I had been attributing to the knackered sprocket bearing...

Damped front sprocket on order...

Please tell me it's the new front sprocket, or I'm stumped