V-Strom DL1000

[macvisual]

Spoke to my local Suzuki bike dealer this morning in Edinburgh about the new model DL1000, he told me it's got a 20 litre fuel tank (2 litres LESS) than my 2008 DL1000, and the brake horse power is 98, so no change in power.

Strange Suzuki would not address these issues for improvement etc.... CRAP

[frez]

10% less fuel carried but 15% better mpg is still a win for the new bike as far as range goes and that is the only reason we carry fuel unless we want to use it to start camp fires.

Riding a bike off the track is more about where the power is than how much of it you have (its not the size but how you use it argument). The new bike has peak torque at 4k revs and at 6.4k on the old bike. Another win for the new bike.

[macvisual]

It's priced at £9,995 apparently, and luggage I'm guessing will be extra again.

I'm still loving the Honda CrossTourer 1200cc V4 with shaft drive thou, mental smoooooooth.

[Oop North John]

It's nice to abuse a powerful bike every now and then, but who can ride for any length of time on the wee / glee with the throttle fully open? I know I don't then so I see no need for more than 100HP. Two up with luggage there has been only once when I wished for more power than my Glee.

[geekay]

It's priced at £9,995 apparently, and luggage I'm guessing will be extra again.

I'm still loving the Honda CrossTourer 1200cc V4 with shaft drive thou, mental smoooooooth.

that would be the 15% more expensive cross tourer - also with no luggage at £11,499 (or with DCT at £12,399)

or fully loaded with luggage - the "highlander" model at a whopping £14,299 (DCT model - £13,399 without)

might a well buy a proper R1200GS and be done with it at those prices!

I would bet the Honda is nice to ride though - not tested one myself - but as I said, at those prices the GS is the market leader and if I was in that market, I wouldn't even bother test riding the others.

[Jacko]

The Hondas shaft seems pretty solid, it's the same engine and transmission as the VFR1200, 3 years old now.

The Crosstourer isn't as good as the GS to ride, it's a bit 'me too', nothing special and a bit uninspiring, typical Honda.

[Strombone]

Doesn't that Honda Xtourer have poor tank range?

[geekay]

Doesn't that Honda Xtourer have poor tank range?

the "book figures" are 45mpg for the "manual" - and it has a 21.5ltr tank - so not going to be as good as the glee / wee - but probably not bad for a 1200cc V4

[Strombone]

With the DL650 you can thrash it a bit and still get reasonable MPG. I bet those 1200s drop to the twenties if you up the pace a bit.

[Strombone]

Riding a bike off the track is more about where the power is than how much of it you have (its not the size but how you use it argument). The new bike has peak torque at 4k revs and at 6.4k on the old bike. Another win for the new bike.

Numpty question but what does this actually mean? Why is it better to have peak torque at 4K and not 6.4?

[Jacko]

The peak shunt is reached earlier in the rev range, you're not having to spin the motor so hard to reach optimum forward movement. Basically, you're tootling along at 60, 3,500 revs, you see an overtake and you just open the throttle. If peak torque was higher up you'd either have to wait until the revs build or drop it down a gear or two to put the engine in that zone. It means you can leave it in 6th all day and use the low end torque to catapult you towards the horizon.

Have a go on a sports 600 to see the exact opposite effect.

[Strombone]

Thanks for that...makes sense. Would you ever want that power at 6 - 7 K as well though?

[geekay]

Thanks for that...makes sense. Would you ever want that power at 6 - 7 K as well though?

its not about power though - this is about torque - or twisting force - it's the "strength" of the engine, what you feel that gives you the shove. Power is a function of torque and RPM - which is why high power, small capacity units rev very highly - see the comment about riding a sports 600. - both the sports 600 and the 650 make around 40FtLb torque - but the sports 600 revs to 15,000 and makes 120bhp

different engine layouts and diferent tuning provide different outputs at different levels. for touring, you want lower RPM and higher torque levels in the low range - effortless touring and overtaking.

The sports 600 onthe other hand - belongs on a race track and lives for gear changes and lots of revs at all times!

[frez]

A bike performs best between peak torque and peak power, it's called the power band, and its where you want to be to make maximum progress.

Sports bikes sacrifice everything for more peak power and as such end up with a small power band high up in the rev range which means you are having to keep the motor spinning in a narrow rev range by using the gears to get the most out of it, but you are rewarded with more power than if the engine had been tuned for a larger spread of power.

Get on a sports bike and its typically completely gutless below 6k revs and doesn't really get going till 10k revs.

I loved sports bikes in the past, now I'd rather sacrifice some power and have a bike that I can ride with only the occasional gear change needed.

[Jacko]

Thanks for that...makes sense. Would you ever want that power at 6 - 7 K as well though?

You can't have a peak in two places within the rev range. This is where R&D comes in, a few things can affect the way an engine is tuned. Take the Glees 650 motor, it's the Gladius engine, but the cams have been changed to give a less aggressive profile, so they open the valves for longer during a stroke but not as far as the Gladius cams, which open them for a shorter amount of time per stroke but by a greater amount. This, coupled with ECU differences to fuelling, can give the same engine two completely different characteristics, as demonstrated by the Glad and the Glee and, of course the SV650 and the Wee. Also, gas flow and intake profiles, length, and airbox design can all affect tuning.

You can't have it all though, low down grunt is always at the expense of top end power, a balance engineers have been playing with for generations.

[Strombone]

Aha! Interesting stuff  so thanks Always wondered about that cam profile stuff.

Apologies to the OPfor hijacking the thread