Author Topic: Rattle and stuff  (Read 1219 times)

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Offline randomjord

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Rattle and stuff
« on: March 31, 2013, 10:29:36 »
Morning all!

Right...couple of questions to ask after I have had a go with the search function but couldn't find much on this.

I have an '02 DL1000 with a fsh 52k on the clocks. I didn't notice it at first (prob due to it being a big change from a 2011 cbf125!) but when I release the clutch when I neutral there's a rattling like its not fully disengaged, and when riding in lowish revs its extremely clanky for want of a better word.

Is this a quirk or an issue where I need to be going back to the dealer? I had read on here about there being a slight misalignment that can make gear changes a bit crap but would that give me the problems I have? I haven't had it a week yet and don't want to be stuck with it if its going to develop into something worse or cost a lot to fix.

Thanks in advance!

Offline MartinW

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2013, 11:06:29 »
Start here ..... search.php?keywords=chudder

Then look up the posts from the user sharealike

If this covers the symptoms you see, then the fix is available from sharealike
Tall, Dark and Handsome (In 1987) - Just tall now !!

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Offline randomjord

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2013, 11:18:02 »
Describes it perfectly cheers!

Fluids are fine (still in the habit of daily checks)

So I'll dig into the other bits

Thanks for your help!

Offline hookie

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, 13:25:24 »
With regard to lumpy low end running which will make the clutch issue more apparent, it might be worth making sure the throttle butterflies are properly synchronised. If they're out this will make the problem a lot worse.

Offline sharealike

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 00:30:13 »
If this turns out to be the original clutch basket on an 02 at 52k miles. Then it could have been shocking to ride and with noise at idle from as far back as 10k miles or less. Over ten years in and out of dealers to keep up that FSH. And none of them picked up the clutch basket chudder????
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/

Offline Abercol

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 08:32:55 »
Quote from: "sharealike"
...And none of them picked up the clutch basket chudder????

Why, yes sir, they all do that... :groan:

A few probably did pick up on it, but why fix it when an unsuspecting punter can pay....

Offline randomjord

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 10:36:28 »
Well I'll be going back to the dealers with it tomorrow (riding it in rather than phoning up, to easy to be fobbed off!)

I've also studied the paperwork I got with the bike in case it goes down the shitty path.

Bought from a 'Trade Centre' of a large group in Swindon, but there's no reference to this on my paperwork so am I right in thinking I'm still covered under the sales of goods act? Even so I can be pretty spectacular in my hissy fits if not.

Obviously I love the V, and can only imagine how great it will be with the basket mod! So my POA will be to take it in, ask for them to repair it, or cover the cost of sending it to Sharealike and giving me a bike whilst this is done.

Worst case scenario is that I back it, take the money and start again.

Oh Joys!

Offline randomjord

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 13:18:01 »
So it's back at the dealers and I've got a spiffy one of these whilst they sort it



Bruno the small dog approves.

Offline sharealike

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2013, 21:57:46 »
Good of them to lend you what could be their Yamaha funded demonstrator while they fix a Suzuki.
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/

Offline sharealike

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, 13:10:40 »
Any word as to what they found with your VStrom? And what they did to fix it?

Would be good to know if the original mark one basket was still in there. Many I 've seen are in a poor state by 15,000 miles. The few that came in with 50,000 on them were shot. Can still modify most of them to better than new.

Seems I was wrong - A Yam dealer just told me he had to pay the usual way for his demonstrators. Yamaha dictate which and when though.
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/

Offline Sharpy

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2013, 13:25:34 »
Mine has pretty bad "chudder" and needs sorting.  I mostly ride around the issue and just about get away with it but it is frustrating nonetheless.  

At the moment I just don't have the money for either the basket to be fixed by sharealike or for a new basket to be fitted so I have been putting it off.  

Hope the garage fix it for you, I got the run around for ages from the garage I bought mine from and simply gave up in the end - bad form but it was winter and I was fed up.

Really just need to bite the bullet and get it done!
Biker & Cyclist...

Offline Brockett

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2013, 13:45:09 »
Every time I've taken a bike back for a "funny noise" the usual response is " they all do that ... it's normal".
and in this case that is probably both true and unhelpful.
My K8 V does not seem to suffer yet but it has only 11k on the clock so plenty of time yet.
Or were the later models modded to avoid this problem?
This doesn't last forever, so do it while you can.

Offline Sharpy

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2013, 13:54:30 »
Brockett - The later models had an updated carrier put in and it solved the issue.  Bad news for folk like me is the cost something stupid like £500+Fitting!!
Biker & Cyclist...

Offline greywolf

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2013, 15:06:46 »
Quote from: "Sharpy"
Brockett - The later models had an updated carrier put in and it solved the issue.
There was a basket change in 2004 but all years are subject to the possibility of chudder. That was not fixed. All 2004 and later Vees use the same clutch basket.

http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,7503.0.html
http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php/topic,14649.0.html
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline Sharpy

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2013, 15:32:11 »
Just seem that in the other thread GW... for some reason I though they had fixed it!!
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Offline sharealike

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2013, 21:14:36 »
Quote from: "greywolf"
There was a basket change in 2004 but all years are subject to the possibility of chudder. That was not fixed. All 2004 and later Vees use the same clutch basket.

And they also introduced a new clutch cover and gasket for the cover. Said to be a noise reducing design. All this does is either trap a slightly deeper oil bath round the clutch at idle and as you ride. Or prevents oil surge from the rest of the sump hitting the clutch with quite so much force. The marketing spin only worked for a short time because the new bits made no noticeable difference. I experimented with all permutations.

And then they changed the needle roller the basket bears on. Perhaps thinking that was the source of the vibration or might damp it. It's where most evidence of the rattle at idle and vibration as you ride can be seen if you don't strip the baskets to have a look inside.

Years back I stripped my own SV1000 baskets and tried all sorts of modifications to pinpoint the cause. Then later a good few VStrom 1000 baskets sent from all over the globe to trial my final design.
Documented here what was going wrong inside for the very first time. Then showed a re-engineered fix to the world for the first time just here - http://www.vstrom.info/Smf/index.php?topic=12325.0 and later here in the UK on this very forum.
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=3244

Copies attempted in many countries. Most I have supported by sending inside detail, but some are content to let their work be passed off as being mine. One even pretends to be me.

Started development on other bike clutch baskets that have the same symptoms.
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/

Offline greywolf

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2013, 21:22:26 »
It's easy for the mind to equate changed with fixed. Better still isn't best though.
Pat- 2007 DL650A was ridden to all 48 contiguous states. 2012 DL650A outlasted me.
Nicknames I use to lessen typing, Vee = 2002-2012 (K2-L2) DL1000s. Veek=2014+ (L4+) DL1000s. Wee = 2004-2011 (K4-L1) DL650s. Glee = 2012+ (L2+) DL650s

Offline sharealike

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Re: Rattle and stuff
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2013, 21:49:21 »
Quote from: "Sharpy"
Brockett - The later models had an updated carrier (clutch basket) put in and it solved the issue.

This is perhaps just for those with technical interest -

After comparing the old and new I found it was to correct an issue with the hardening, surface finish and accelerated wear caused by the loose inner spring plate that chatters about inside. Many owners have since proved it did not correct the rattle at idle and the 2,300 to 2,800 rpm vibration (chudder = shudder + chatter) that was there in all gears. The change they introduced made the problem plate that kicks off the vibration a little thinner and therefore weaker where it was seen to be breaking before. Vibration or chudder tends to crop up just as often in these with the revised inner plate fitted. Even 2012 bikes are getting the chudder with 5,000 miles on them over in the USA.

Before I explained how Suzuki also changed the needle roller bearing that the basket bears on. They deliberately spaced the rollers with a larger gap at one point so that it upset any resonance caused as the load shifted from roller to roller. The source of the resonance still being inside the basket and not the bearings evenly spaced rollers as they thought.

Quote from: "Sharpy"
Brockett -  Bad news for folk like me is the cost something stupid like £500+Fitting!!

The later clutch basket was fitted under warranty to many 02 and 03 bikes in the USA. About 1 in 20 I have re-engineered from the US are the earlier version. A new basket can be bought there for just under $300 USD. (£195.00). Oddly this comes close to our price if you import one once you paid VAT, packing and the shipping. I keep trying the online distributors over there but the final price you pay rises on their systems as soon as you enter UK as shipping destination. Its as if they are not allowed to sell at the discounts outside the USA (I use brand new for some owners who buy cheap and post over for the work to be done).

No such luck here in the UK where they were seldom attended to under warranty but its not all bad news. About 1 in 5 that came here from Europe are still the mark one basket. New in the UK is Just over £350 rather than £500. Equivalent in Euros in the rest of Europe. Bit less in Greece but the same once you paid the €40 plus to get them here.

Good news - well better perhaps. Most bikes existing baskets can be modified for no more than £245.00 including parts and post. The modification I do removes the concentrated loads from the problem areas. The load is shared as the original designers intended. Modified baskets have been stripped after many miles and show that they no longer deteriorate at the alarming rate of the Suzuki replacements.

Majority of owners remove and re-fit themselves which saves both time and money over the dealer. An easy job with slides that are out all over the place. Send them on to any who ask.
Please contact me directly about clutch basket modifications. john@vibefreev.com
Website http://www.vibefreev.com/