Hard Wax Chain Greaser.

[Descolada]

ahh   my leaky saggy shaft id 57 in June  

my 30 year old shaft is on a Yamaha XS 1100 Sport        

     

I find a popsicle stick and cable ties work wonders when all else fails.  

[Descolada]

...
Legislation might bring them back sooner than we think on an environmental ticket. How long before the authorities realise just how much slippery, polluting oil we spray over the roads that runs off into the rivers and then to the seas?

.. surely it can't be any worse than the gallons of diesel and oil slopped onto the road by buses and HGV's. The stuff getting dropped off these things is a continual menace.

But you are right of course, some under worked bureaucrat with too much time on his hands will think this up eventually.  

[jimbo8098]

I wouldn't touch it to be honest. Anything that gets in the way of your final drive is a bad idea , no matter how good the purposes are. It increases friction on your chain which in turn will increase wear and tear and cost you more money down the line plus you run the risk of overtightening the chain and having it come off while you are full pelt which is not good!

I'd play it safe and just use a tin of wax grease if you want to use it. Wax seems to repel water better and seems to keep the salt off better but you do need to clean your chain more often since most are less likely to fling.

[Keith Cross]

I have bikes with both chain and shaft drive.  And both have their advantages and disadvantages.  One of the the things that has to be thought about is changing the direction of the way the power gets to the rear wheel.  Each time the direction of power delivery is changed you lose power.  So for a bike like the vstrom (or any bike whose crank is a 90 degrees to the bike) you are changing the direction of power twice.  Hence chain drive makes more sense.  With a bike where the crank is in line with the frame, such as Goldwings and BMW's the power has to be turned once no matter which type of drive you use.  In this case it makes sense to use shaft drive.
Cost also has to be taken into account.  For example a chain and sprocket kit costs maybe £75 - 100.  A drive shaft for a 1100 goldwing is around £175 and the rear wheel gearbox about £900.  So in reality the cost of shaft drive replacement is approx 11 - 12 times as much.  But they do last a lot longer.  My old 1100 now has 160,000 on the clock on the original drive shaft components, so have lasted 10 times longer than a chain a sprocket kit and is still going strong.
So the cost of shaft drive compared to chain and sprockets is cheaper (in my opinion) but this doesn't take into account economy.  A dirty unlubed chain eats power and hence fuel.  A drive shaft on the other hand doesn't really change over time.  Hence in the configuration used on a Goldwing, over many miles shaft drive is probably cheaper.  On a bike like the Vstrom the cost in power and hence fuel costs could be better with a well maintained chain drive.

Finally.  Shaft drive is easier to maintain and doesn't get you hand dirty

Keith C

[sharealike]

my learned friends on the XS forum say they have never known a problem with the shaft drive on these 25 - 33 year old bikes ????


Don't know if younger bikes have a problem

Those early shafts from Japan were simple and dependable. Yam, Honda and Suzuki. Few from Kawa too.

Honda used the same unit on the CX500 and right up to the larger Goldwings for many, many years. Even looks like they only took the lug off for the bottom of the rear shock when they went cantilever (rising rate pro-link was it?) for the rear suspension.

Never hear of shaft problems on Guzzi's. Now fitting a torque arm on the larger machines to counter the same reactions that BMW are all excited about.

I have bikes with both chain and shaft drive. ........  And both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Finally.  Shaft drive is easier to maintain and doesn't get you hand dirty

Keith C

Plus one on that. So convenient. Go for a few days or weeks ride and forget about lube, noise, dirt and adjustment.

Once you had a shaft on something above 500 cc you really don't want to know about chains.

Manufacturers come up with all sorts of excuses for not fitting them. I remember when the larger Suzukis came with the option of chain or shaft. GS650, GS850 and GS1000. In salesmans speak its known as overcome objections to purchase. Modern O ring chains are nearly maintenence free sir. Bolderdash.

[Juvecu]

I looked into converting the Wee to a belt drive before, it was too much trouble though. I still think belts are underutilised on modern motorcycles. They are very strong, can stretch and recover in use, are reliable and practically maintenance free, don't smash everything including your legs to bits when they break and relatively inexpensive. They weigh less than a chain too, a huge plus for unsprung weight at the rear wheel. It's also very easy to carry a spare belt compared to carrying a spare chain. Fitting can be a bitch though as you'd normally need to remove the swingarm because the belt is continuous, I can live with that.

Lots of positives and very few negatives for the user, not so much for the dealerships and parts shops who's trying to get money off you

[greywolf]

A big negative for belt use is contamination. You won't find belts on many off road or dual sport motorcycles. A few pebbles or a good helping of sand can cause damage in a hurry.

[medic5]

my Harley belt snapped at 300 miles. bitch to get Harley to replace under warranty, but they did after a battle.  

[Jacko]

BMW want £300 to replace the belt on the F800 tourer.. Every 24,000 miles..

However, I think the advantages outweigh that extra cost.. But GW is right, of course, the stone guards around the belt on the F800 must weigh more than the belt itself..

[sharealike]

BMW want £300 to replace the belt on the F800 tourer.. Every 24,000 miles..

However, I think the advantages outweigh that extra cost.. But GW is right, of course, the stone guards around the belt on the F800 must weigh more than the belt itself..

And belts need to be fairly wide and run on large diameter pulleys to transmit any serious power. Front sprocket area of the engine needs to be designed from the start with belt fitment in mind. The frame needs to be wide at the swing arm pivot near your ankles so the belt fits between frame and tyre or use those inferior spine frames with bolt on side plates. And the rear pulley would look big and ugly to some.

Fully enclosed chains where the swing arm casting is part of the enclosure with a complete plastic cover bolting over the outside could be the way to go. Bit like Lambretta scooters. No oil fling so enviromentaly better and the case would absorb much of the chain noise. Plastic cover could be so made that it self ejects or opens in the right area and even guides a broken chain out of harms way to avoid it locking the rear wheel.

[Juvecu]

I like the idea of fully enclosed chains too Just makes so much sense, but we all know it's never going to happen because it doesn't look "cool" enough.

[Jacko]

CooI

The only trouble with enclosed chains is you can't easily check the tension.. And they look shit, of course..

[sharealike]

I like the idea of fully enclosed chains too Just makes so much sense, but we all know it's never going to happen because it doesn't look "cool" enough.

Share same concerns but would like to see at least one manufacturer try. Modern casting, plastic moulding, composites and new metal forming technology must surely be able to come up with something that looks cool and dare I say futuristic. A real game changer.

[WLR]

Wow a long thread to read!

So untill I can get a enclosed chain, it's manual lubing for me. I do like the idea of Chainsaw oil and WD40 though, Abercol can you update here with your results at some point

[Juvecu]

I for one would love if a manufacturer would be so 'brave' as to set the trend with fully enclosed drive chains that look great, sharealike. Either that or some eurocrat will enforce it in some ill conceived law, if we're lucky enough for them to do that instead of bannning motorcycles completely...

[Abercol]

I loved the enclosed chain on my H100, it was so easy...no cleaning and hardly any lube required, lube was applied via an easily removed 40mm grommet & that also let you inspect the chain for stretch. If it did need adjusting, then just 2 bolts removed the lower half of the guard if you wanted a really good look at it or to replace it.