Suzuki V-Strom (VStrom) Owners Club DL250, DL650, DL1000 & DL1050
Other Stuff => The Blue Oyster bar => Traitors Corner => Topic started by: Tusker on May 14, 2018, 17:51:08
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Now I know most don't ride Tiggers,, !!! but some of you do know a lot about bikes in general. After a great 6 days in Ireland, last night as I came off the ferry my dashboard died !!! rev counter stuck at 5.5 thousand revs and no display. My riding mate confirmed no brake light or indicators.. I decided that stopping the bike was not a good idea,, proved right when I got home cos it wouldn't start again.... With my limited knowledge I'm guessing its a blown fuse .. any hints or considered advice welcome..
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Yes , first check the fuses, although it should have restarted if it's just the circuit for indicators/brake light.
Has the engine management light come on ?
Also , what's the symptoms of the non starting ? Is it just turning over and not firing or dead battery ?
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no engine management lights on ,, after turning it off its like there s no battery connected.. just dead, no lights no swinging dash.. nothing.. Just done 6 days 1,100 miles it just happened off the ferry home,,
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The battery would be the first culprit , check connections are OK and then if you have a meter test for load drop . First get something to hold the clutch lever in, a strap or long cable tie, it saves a spare set of hands later on.
To do this, put meter probes on the battery terminals while ignition is in off position , check the voltage, should be around 12.5v -12.8v.
Then , keeping the probes on the battery turn on the ignition to see how much the voltage drops.
If it's a good battery the voltage should drop very little, say 2-3v while the bike does its thing before returning to around 12v before you press the start button, push the start button constantly checking the voltage , again if it's a good battery the drop should be around 3v when turning over.
If it's a bad battery then the voltage will drop quite considerable, possibly as much as 7-9v not giving you enough power to start the bike or even power anything.
The next thing to check if you get nothing when turning on the ignition would be the starter solenoid fuse and the solenoid itself . I've worked many bikes but I'm unable tell you the exact location , it will be close to the battery , just follow the positive battery lead.
Once you have found it check the fuse , should be near around 30amp (green maybe?), When these blow you get zero ignition (like no battery) , I doubt it's this but worth a check because if this had blown you wouldn't have got off the ferry .
However , sometimes the whole solenoid can be faulty giving similar symptoms as a blown 30amp fuse so , if fuse is good try this, with the ignition on, it will cause a few sparks, you need to bridge the two main +/- wires bolted to the solenoid. This done by maybe using an old set of plyers with rubber handles, open the jaws and touch the two main wires or two old screw drivers with decent handles, it's a bit archaic but it works. If everything else is good this will turn your starter motor and possibly start the bike, if it does remove the plyers/screw drivers straight away.
Doing this test basically removes the solenoid from the loom and may suggest that your solenoid is worn out or has an intermittent problem.
I'm not saying that these two tests are your problem but it's the first couple of things to check.
Good luck for now :thumb:
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One hell of a reply kwackboy :thumb: Feel like we should sticky it somewhere, somehow!
Glad you got home anyway, Tusker!
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:thumb: I'm currently on a 26day holiday in Thailand with bugger all to do apart from rest, read and drink beer.
I generally don't get time at home because I'm always working my back side off .
Anyway for anyone who thinks I've missed girls and lady boys off my list my missus takes care of those needs .. :shy:
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Thanks Kwackboy, I'll get a more a mate to help me out and try your suggested checks,, :thumb: :thumb:
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I'd also suggest checking the wiring to/from the rectifier - this converts the AC to DC - if it has struggled to cope, the wiring will be looking decidely 'brown' usually at one end.
You're looking for a finned solid piece of aluminium with wires coming out of it - usually mounted in an airflow around the inside of the frame (but could be elsewhere - on my old Navigator it was under the rear rack!) Follow the wiring to the engine, left side
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Finally got a bit of time to myself today, so armed with a new Multimeter I checked all the fuses and they are good. I've checked the battery and its good, can't check power drop on ignition cos there is no ignition. To recap, Tiger just done 1100 miles in 4 days,, starts perfectly on ferry and runs from Holyhead to the Mainland OK... then whilst running the dashboard dies, the rev counter freezes and headlight and brake lights fail. Bike runs all the way to Wigan but once I turn it off its dead... My question is what could fail whilst running if its not a fuse ??? or is there a fuse I don't know about ? With my limited knowledge I can't identify starter solenoid or rectifier !!!! :icon_no: :icon_no:
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Have you check the charging rate while running at the battery . ? Charging should be between 13v -14.5v. optimum charging is between 1500rpm - 5000rpm, let it run for over 20mins .
From your symptoms you are describing it sounds to me like you have a charging issue. Being a triumph I'd suspect the regulator is giving up when it gets hot .
I've seen regulator's charge perfectly well when cold but after around 20mins they just give up.
Give this test a try .
Edit,
Just re-read your last post . Zero ignition so you won't be able to do this test.
Try to find the starter solenoid as I described in one of my last posts .
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What voltage is the battery showing?
Anything below 12v with out ignition on will be the tell tale of a battery/charging issue.
Also check the simple things like are the battery terminals loose?
Disable all aftermarket electrical items to rule them out.
As kwackboy said Trumpets are known to have reg/recs built to the same standards as 90's Hondas (eg shiyt!) But that's doesn't explain the dash off unless it's caused something else to go wonkey.
Carefully unplug the ecu and check the connectors for damage, corrosion or heat damage.
I hate tracing electrical issues. :angry-banghead:
I feel your pain.
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Just to end this tale of woe, finally my Stepson (Mechanic :fix: and bike lover) got round to having a look at the Tiger.
To demonstrate to me my total incompetence in the use of a multi-meter :old: he checked all the fuses that I told him I had already checked (wise man) and the 3rd one was blown. He replaced it and Tiger is all better. :thumb:
According to the handbook the fuse that robbed Tiger of its Dashboard, Rev counter, lights, indicators and ignition system is the fuse for the horn and indicators. Live, Learn and move on !!!
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This tale of woe
After his fuse did blow
Left Tusker rather stranded.
But the stepson came
And put him to shame
With a multimeter he is cack handed!
lol :fix: :thumb:
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lol lol
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You're a poet and I didn't know it !! :clap: :clap: lol
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lol
The jungle approach to fuses is even easier. Photograph the fuses. Remove the smallest fuse and replace it with the second smallest. See what works/ doesn't work now. Put the next biggest fuse in the gap and repeat. If nothing makes any difference except the 30A main one its probably not the fuse. Use the photograph to put them back in the right order.
A test lamp and 9V battery are actually smaller, dual purpose (use it as a spare indicator lamp or to read until the RAC arrive) and probably easier for a lot of people to use.
Andy
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The range of literary talent on this forum knows no bounds! As for electrical talent, well...
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Sometimes I think I would be better off finding a country cottage and losing the car and the motorbike. Obviously there would have to be a pub close by and a Spar !! a fishing pond would be nice and a chippy... that would allow me to lead a simple life !! :grin:
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The range of literary talent on this forum knows no bounds! As for electrical talent, well...
Voltaire we can do, voltage, meh.....
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Tusker, I reckon your electrical problems are a result of your bike sobbing because of what you did to her paintwork :stirpot:
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Glad it's sorted Tusker, didn't want to change the date again :shock:
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I’m with AndyM on the fuses, if I have an issue I swap them for known good uns, and go from there (it may also be cos I struggle to see whether they’ve blown or not). It’s a good way to do it if struggling under a streetlamp in the middle of nowhere.
As for kwackboy’s advice - you need to bridge the two main +/- wires bolted to the solenoid. This done by maybe using an old set of plyers with rubber handles
Wow.. that took me back, to about 1982 I think and riding r-kids knackered CB750FA.
It was suffering with bent valves and a total disregard for maintenance, it wouldn’t tick-over, and the solenoid was also buggered, so he had the side panel permanently off to allow access, and a 6inch nail tucked under the seat strap to arc across the terminals each time it died.. (with sellotape wrapped around one end.. safety first of course ????)
It was great, often stalling at zebra crossings, each time out would come the nail, sparks would fly, and the bloody thing would roar into life once more. Great for terrifying young children and old ladies.. Ace.!
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Shorting solenoids - yup, been there... First car ('78 Opel Kadett - Chevette style) went for a swim through a big puddle one night I was out and the starter began to act up soon after as the terminals in the solenoid had corroded a bit. I had 2 big screwdrivers in the car - one you jammed the key against the wheel to the start position, the other you shorted the solenoid terminals out with. I lived with that for about 6 months... :shy:
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I have no clue what you say ###
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@Mr Nick my Chrysler Sunbeam had a similar issue, the main battery feed in had snapped off so I had to flash a jump lead to the out and trigger terminals. 6 to 8 months with me as well. I extended the alternator charge cables up to the battery....
How I'm still here I'll never know, the pair of 40 DCOE's always leaked when it was hot.
Those Kadette's were one of the sweetest handling cars ever conceived by man, the 1200's had a brilliant screamer of an engine.
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I think the shit has just got deeper, when we found the blown fuse we replaced the 10A with a 20A (because I had no spare 10A) just now I took the 20A out and put a 10A in, no problem the bike started and was spinning its back wheel on the paddock stand. Turned it off did a bit of cleaning and adjusted the chain started the bike up to spin the wheel till warm to add chain lube. Again no problem. As I went to stop the bike I stalled it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ping blown fuse. All previous faults reappeared. I changed the fuse and tried to start the bike,,, ping blown fuse... :dl_smiley_banghead: :dl_smiley_banghead: left bike for ten minutes whilst I had a curse and a cuppa. Went back to it changed fuse and all OK. Stopped it, started it a number of times, had the back wheel spinning, put spots on , heated grips on full,, stopped, it started it and no problem... :shrug: But my confidence in the bike is shot. No time today to take her out but on a ride tomorrow guess I'll stay close to home...... :eusa-doh:
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Sounds like a short, some wiring rubbed through? Does it happen when you move the handle bars? check wiring to bars. Any work done on it recently? :shrug:
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Who knows Paul :shrug: I've looked at everything I can. I'm now going to Wales today on a long ride out. I'm with other riders and I have spare fuses ,,lets see what happens. I spoke to an auto electrician last night (he doesn't do bikes) he said "the only thing worse than an electrical fault is an intermittent electrical fault" I said thanks for that :clap: :clap:
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Start where the loom goes from the headstock/yokes to the main frame. The dash, ignition switch stuff and lights all pass through there and its the classic place for a rubbed through loom.
Also, replace the 10A fuse with a suitably bent nail and try sniffing for escaping Lucas smoke.
Andy
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:shock: lol
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How about a diesel Enfield? No engine electrics to worry about ????
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Also, replace the 10A fuse with a suitably bent nail and try sniffing for escaping Lucas smoke.
Andy
Risky ....!!
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I was under the impression that the smoke of Joseph was without odour, only sound and darkness.
A quick search did indicate that it isn't an unusual occurance, but it is usually components rather than the loom at fault, even a faulty O2 sensor caused a short.
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Hope this helps.
https://www.visordown.com/forum/crap-jokes/electrical-theory-by-joe-lucas
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Somehow I don't think modern triumphs have British looms and components but I have used this method a couple of times and it's worked .
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Diesel Enfield? I met a chap built a diesel Fiesta bike. Shaft drive too.
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ME :lala: :lala: :lala: :fix: :fix: 10 miles into my day out in Wales the same fuse blew again on the St Helens bypass.. ### :icon_exclaim:,,,,, however by pure genius and Skillful observation (or luck) as I stared down at my dead dash I saw two little thin wires, one black one white flutter from the bottom of the front cowl near the top of the forks. So I pulled over. I fished the wires into view and they both had bare ends and they had managed to touch each other as they fluttered. I taped them up, well actually I plastered them up, had to improvise with my little medical kit as I did not have the foresight to carry electrical tape. I changed the fuse and did 320 odd miles all around Wales with no problem. I even know what the two little wires are they are the redundant wiring to a previous owners auxiliary running lights. :whistle: so problem/mystery solved...
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:fix: :lala:
come take a look at my brakes lol
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its complicated Mr Diver its much more complicated than that lol
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Typical previous owners... you should go round there with the boys :violence-smack: I hear the end of August is a good time to pay them a visit.. :whistle:
lol
Am glad you found the fix :fix:
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Ah .. human error. Triumph electrics are bullet proof .. :shy:. lol
Well done for finding the issue . You are now officially this forums triumph expert .. :clap:
Who's the previous owner :roll: .. :grin:
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Oi, that Tiger had fitted/working auxilliary lights when it left me so the wires are something else, I'm not in the habit of leaving wires floating around,. :icon_batterup:
Also, it has taken how many years to develop into a fault?
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Possibly from when you did the interesting dressing job for the bike :whistle:
Seriously Tusker glad it's fixed as I was down to one coffee and one ice cream :thumb:
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Did I attach any blame to your good self Mr FR :icon_no: I replaced your lights with my current lights and wired them through from an ignition live. my wiring left your wiring redundant. I decided not to remove your wiring so I taped them up and tucked them into the dash. Time and weather has done the rest. The tape has gone and the wires were fluttering and touching occasionally !! hence the intermittent fault. :shy:.... Can you remember ? did you connect your lights into the headlight wiring ? I may now decide to strip them out .. I'm in a :fix: mood
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So the technical headlines I took from that are;
1. I am a genius
2. You are a clown
lol
Glad it was something simple, even if it was frustrating.
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I can't remember how I wired them (or if I did). Sorry.
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Loose wires will have TallPaul bothering the Samaritans again, you know what he's like. :dl_hyperhysteria:
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At least you've, erm, nailed it. I ran all my switch wires through the bars on my vn15, 9 on one side and about 6 on the other. Extended, joined, sheathed, all invisible. Went to Liverpool, bike cutting out & back in on the M62, gouts of flame and cannonfire out of the open pipes. Got there, dismantled headlight, switches, nothing visibly wrong. Right, disconnect battery and start digging in. Battery negative was loose, I'd forgotten to tighten it up after re routing the wires!
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just human fallibility I'm afraid :old: no I mean it, I am afraid lol